(October 18, 2014 at 10:49 pm)Losty Wrote: "Lets flip the lid so to speak. If a girl starts sucking off a boy thats asleep or drunk, is she a rapist to the same extent if the roles are reversed?"

There's no "to some extent" sex without consent is rape. Period.

OK then, so does the rape act against a man repulse you to the same extent?

Would a woman face the same punishment as a man? Should she?

Does the opinion of men as a separate sex hold any sway? Meaning, if a woman broke into my house and raped me I would feel icky maybe, but I would probably be more furious with her presence than her sex act. I certainly in good conscious wouldn't feel justice would be served if her life was ruined for the act. Certainly not for a long prison sentence.

Why would men be so much more compassionate over a physical sexual intrusion than women?

This isn't rape but it does show societies sexism.

i won't lie -- waking up to a woman sucking me off was a wonderful experience.

Perhaps I didn't feel violated because she read my mind?

(October 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 10:49 pm)Losty Wrote: "Lets flip the lid so to speak. If a girl starts sucking off a boy thats asleep or drunk, is she a rapist to the same extent if the roles are reversed?"

There's no "to some extent" sex without consent is rape. Period.

OK then, so does the rape act against a man repulse you to the same extent?

Would a woman face the same punishment as a man? Should she?

Does the opinion of men as a separate sex hold any sway? Meaning, if a woman broke into my house and raped me I would feel icky maybe, but I would probably be more furious with her presence than her sex act. I certainly in good conscious wouldn't feel justice would be served if her life was ruined for the act. Certainly not for a long prison sentence.

Why would men be so much more compassionate over a physical sexual intrusion than women?

Interesting question if you really feel that way about a women raping you. Would it matter if:

1) She used a dildo for penetration;

2) You were likely to get pregnant (yes this requires imagination);

3) If the sex were really, really unwanted. So in your case, let's imagine a male rapist.

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(October 18, 2014 at 11:56 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: i won't lie -- waking up to a woman sucking me off was a wonderful experience.

Perhaps I didn't feel violated because she read my mind?

I too have problems with the no pre-sleep consent to sex begun during sleep. But I'd like to choose the man. There is a guy who has that consent, though if I woke up in terror I haven't a doubt he'd stop. Waking up to a man I didn't and never wanted would be a nightmare.

(October 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 10:49 pm)Losty Wrote: "Lets flip the lid so to speak. If a girl starts sucking off a boy thats asleep or drunk, is she a rapist to the same extent if the roles are reversed?"

There's no "to some extent" sex without consent is rape. Period.

OK then, so does the rape act against a man repulse you to the same extent?

Would a woman face the same punishment as a man? Should she?

Does the opinion of men as a separate sex hold any sway? Meaning, if a woman broke into my house and raped me I would feel icky maybe, but I would probably be more furious with her presence than her sex act. I certainly in good conscious wouldn't feel justice would be served if her life was ruined for the act. Certainly not for a long prison sentence.

Why would men be so much more compassionate over a physical sexual intrusion than women?

I think there's a biological function at play here. A woman might ovulate 450 times in her life (12 times a year times 37 years, perhaps long but trying to be fair). A man produces tens of millions of sperm per day.

Further, a woman has to carry the results of a rape pregnancy at least a short time, and in the days before modern health care, she either carried to term, or had an unsupervised abortion. Both options carried serious risks for the woman, and even surviving childbirth, the woman then had a massive drain on her resources without the concomitant of a mate helping to procure food, clothing, and shelter.

I think men write off being sexually used, or violated, because biologically, the penalty is not nearly so heavy for us.

I won't go into particulars, but I have had exactly the same thing done to me that I did to someone else, under exactly the same circumstances regarding illegal drugs (all males involved, btw) and I'll be damned, I have absolutely no problem with what happened to me, and except for the drug part, would happily put myself in the same situation again (with the same guy) and I'd enjoy it just the same, but as for 'Ken', and what we did, I just don't have a completely clear conscience.

I don't know why, I know it is inconsistent, I have not even the slightest inkling 'Ken' was even a particle annoyed, but I still wonder.

(October 18, 2014 at 11:59 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I too have problems with the no pre-sleep consent to sex begun during sleep. But I'd like to choose the man. There is a guy who has that consent, though if I woke up in terror I haven't a doubt he'd stop. Waking up to a man I didn't and never wanted would be a nightmare.

I get what you're saying. I suppose part of my own thinking about this is that as a man, I feel more powerful and in control and so if the woman woke me up that way and I didn't want her attentions, I'd feel able to address the matter.

I'm not making the mistake of assuming that any woman should think as I do, just pondering the differences in gender that are arising in this thread. Learning something about myself as I do, I think.

(Please excuse me for being lazy)

--OK then, so does the rape act against a man repulse you to the same extent?

* Yes, yes it does.

--Would a woman face the same punishment as a man?

* Probably not :/

--Should she?

* Yes

--Does the opinion of men as a separate sex hold any sway?

Meaning, if a woman broke into my house and raped me I would feel icky maybe, but I would probably be more furious with her presence than her sex act. I certainly in good conscious wouldn't feel justice would be served if her life was ruined for the act. Certainly not for a long prison sentence.

* Have you ever been raped? I doubt it. It has nothing to do with society telling me I need to be pure. Being raped is awful because it's so fucking violating. It's violating for men too. If you're ever actually raped and you decide you liked it or it didn't affect you, so be it, don't call the cops. But don't say this kind of shit. It dehumanizes real male rape victims and it's disgusting.

--Why would men be so much more compassionate over a physical sexual intrusion than women?

* I don't even know what this means. If you mean why don't mean get upset about rape, they do, they just don't say it because society tells them if they don't like it or if they feel violated that strips away their manliness.
Rape is a horrible, awful, traumatizing experience. It's wrong always. All victims deal with the pain differently, but it doesn't lesson the severity of the violation. Jesus Christ I don't even know what to say to this without being insanely rude. I hate it when people talk like this though. It's comments like these that make male victims afraid to report to the police. It's comments like these that make them completely internalize their pain and suffering. It's so wrong.

(October 19, 2014 at 12:07 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think there's a biological function at play here. A woman might ovulate 450 times in her life (12 times a year times 37 years, perhaps long but trying to be fair). A man produces tens of millions of sperm per day.

Further, a woman has to carry the results of a rape pregnancy at least a short time, and in the days before modern health care, she either carried to term, or had an unsupervised abortion. Both options carried serious risks for the woman, and even surviving childbirth, the woman then had a massive drain on her resources without the concomitant of a mate helping to procure food, clothing, and shelter.

I think men write off being sexually used, or violated, because biologically, the penalty is not nearly so heavy for us.

That may well be. But the evolutionary response is visceral whether there is a realistic fear of pregnancy or not.

(October 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote: OK then, so does the rape act against a man repulse you to the same extent?

Irrelevant. Either a person has a right against violation or not. How repulsive the violation might seem to others who are not themselves being violated is irrelevant.

The law must be particularly sensitive to the sort of violation which is against the principle of individual dignity, but which social customs exhibit an incompatible permissiveness. After all, protecting those who would otherwise not be protected is the justification for why laws exist.

(October 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Would a woman face the same punishment as a man? Should she?

Yes.

(October 19, 2014 at 12:21 am)Chuck Wrote:

(October 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote: OK then, so does the rape act against a man repulse you to the same extent?

Irrelevant.

(October 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Would a woman face the same punishment as a man? Should she?

Yes.

She should face the same punishment and legally she does. Statistically she does not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_rape

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At least in the case of male on male rape, the affects are traumatic regardless of the sexual orientation of the men. http://www.gq.com/long-form/male-military-rape It's a disheartening article, but worth reading.