(January 3, 2009 at 12:02 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Why is the label important at all?

Given that the purpose of language is communication and that using the same terms/frame of reference is rather important in that concept I'd say the label (with it's associated description) is kinda important.

Kyu

(January 3, 2009 at 3:05 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:

(January 3, 2009 at 12:02 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Why is the label important at all?

Given that the purpose of language is communication and that using the same terms/frame of reference is rather important in that concept I'd say the label (with it's associated description) is kinda important.

Kyu

Sometimes labels get in the way of discussion. I think one should not confuse the message you want to get across with the label. Some might want to define a new universal glossary of non-belief, but when too much of the debate is about the meaning of labels imo communication is far away. This is typically what happens with 'atheism' and 'agnnosticism'. You will have a hard time though finding discussions on the meaning of the term 'theism' on theistic sites.

Sam Harris says that Atheists shouldn't use the atheist or atheism label. And they shouldn't 'call' themselves anything at all. Obviously himself included.

My only question on this matter is: When an Atheist is asked if he believes in God and he replies "no" then he/she is assumed to be an atheist anyway. And if he/she is asked if he is an atheist what is he/she supposed to say? "no"?. It seems misleading either way for me.

I can see that on occasions when NOT asked perhaps it could somehow help with going under the radar as Harris suggests? But still, how do you get around this problem of when asked if you believe/or don't and if you're an atheist or not?

And still how do Atheists overcome the herding cats problem?
evf

(January 3, 2009 at 3:23 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Sometimes labels get in the way of discussion. I think one should not confuse the message you want to get across with the label. Some might want to define a new universal glossary of non-belief, but when too much of the debate is about the meaning of labels imo communication is far away. This is typically what happens with 'atheism' and 'agnnosticism'. You will have a hard time though finding discussions on the meaning of the term 'theism' on theistic sites

I don't think so ... in order to discuss something one needs to be utterly clear on the terminology. Definitions are important.

Kyu

holy-crumpets.
this is a load of mumbo jumbo to me.

I do not believe in 'god/gods'
But I do not know for sure.
I can not speak of whether or not we will discover the truth in the future..
I feel that I can only speak for the now.
I used to want there to be a personal God to feel comforted/loved but today I woke up from and bed and decided I didn't want there to be a god.

I struggle to define my beliefs when asked, what do I belief?

I do not like a misconception about myself.

What label do you think I am looking for?

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: holy-crumpets.
this is a load of mumbo jumbo to me.

So let's dissect it shall we?

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: I do not believe in 'god/gods'

Atheist

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: But I do not know for sure.

Agnostic.

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: I can not speak of whether or not we will discover the truth in the future..

Irrelevant to any label.

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: I feel that I can only speak for the now.
I used to want there to be a personal God to feel comforted/loved but today I woke up from and bed and decided I didn't want there to be a god.

Rational.

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: I struggle to define my beliefs when asked, what do I belief?

I can't answer that, only you can.

(January 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm)puglover Wrote: I do not like a misconception about myself.

What label do you think I am looking for?

I'd say a agnostic atheist.

that label appears useless cause my gut feeling says that nobody knows what that means where i live.
then, the next question they'll ask what is that?

i'll test the responses with me saying 'agnostic atheist'.

i know what i belief.
i did not make the label that says what my belief is.
i just don't know my title but I know what fits inside it.

The heck with responses, the definition is correct and if they cant make the destinction between agnosticism and atheism tell them to look it up.

okay [full stop] lol

i thought that agnostic distinguished that we have no possible way of finding out if there is a god - forever.
i do not agree to this.

i don't know if i like the term agnostic much any more.. it sounds pussy weak.. like i am hopefull for there to be a god or some shizz..
Kyu - what do you reckon about agnostics?

what about the term 'spiritual'?
i am not really sure why but i am to like clinging to it.

maybe i am a Spiritual Agnostic Atheist ?

(January 3, 2009 at 5:55 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:

(January 3, 2009 at 3:23 pm)Purple Rabbit Wrote: Sometimes labels get in the way of discussion. I think one should not confuse the message you want to get across with the label. Some might want to define a new universal glossary of non-belief, but when too much of the debate is about the meaning of labels imo communication is far away. This is typically what happens with 'atheism' and 'agnnosticism'. You will have a hard time though finding discussions on the meaning of the term 'theism' on theistic sites

I don't think so ... in order to discuss something one needs to be utterly clear on the terminology. Definitions are important.

Kyu

What exactly is unclear about the statement "I have no belief in god(s)"?