(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If that is what Wilson wants to claim, would negate the claim of fear. If you think someone is dangerous you do not approach them from a seated position at a tactical disadvantage, which is what Wilson did.

How exactly was Wilson supposed to know that Brown was dangerous before Brown started punching him? Because he was black?

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: With a position of power comes responsibility. Again you chose to believe Wilson and not the friend of Brown.

I don't think you read my post properly.

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: What transpired at the car would have been avoided with an approach of distance. It is natural human behavior, outside of issues of right or wrong, that if someone invades your physical space, humans react to that invasion.

That doesn't even make sense. Invasion of physical space? He drove up to the men walking in the road, rolled down his window and told them to get out of the road. I fail to see how that is invasion of physical space. And even if this was so, was brown justified in hitting the cop? We know there was some sort of struggle because there was brusing on Wilsons face.

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I believe Browns friend that Wilson was not polite about it.

Right! So we shoudln't listen to cops if they are rude to us! Brown was totally justified in hitting Wilson because Wilson was rude!

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Cops instead of being trained to dominate should be trained to defuse a situation. This happened because of long term social conditioning and erodes the public trust of law enforcement.

And I agree with that, but you don't know how it went down, nobody does.

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: What Brown was accused of, upon approach, is nothing I have seen as a white teen and young adult on my street, at bars and frat parties. I have seen people assault cops unarmed and did so once myself. I did not end up dead, nor did any of the people I witnessed doing stupid crap around cops.

Well going on what the cop said, if there was a 190 pound 6 foot 4 man charging me, in full awareness that I was a cop and pointing a gun at him, I would shoot him too.

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Instead of blindly protecting Wilson, as one case, you have to look at the bigger picture to understand why Wilson did what he did, and why Brown did what he did.

Again, I didn't actually offer an opinion, you need to read my post again.

(November 28, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You make this about Wilson as a single event you are failing to take this sample into account with a longer history.

Same again.

Yes it does make sense. Your failure to understand is not my baggage.

Now let me explain again.

1. As an average our CLIMATE has taught cops to fear the worst and dominate. That is taking into account a bigger sample in a larger context.

2. Outside this event, humans when you confront them in close proximity with an aggressive tone, will react to that space and tone. Again, this is evolutionary having nothing to do with moral judgments. You do not have to justify something, but by observing it you can seek to reduce such situations.

3. Outside our species we see the same actions and reactions in other primates and mammals. A subordinate in a group under certain conditions will submit to the alpha male, but under other conditions that same subordinate can react negatively depending on how that alpha male approaches them.

4. The conditions that lead to this particular event are a collection of social conditioning by society. It is a failure by society to accept a real problem.

I criticize Wilsion's actions as part of a larger climate. If you fail to take into account the bigger picture as part of a lager sample, you do not help either Brown or Wilson. You simply perpetuate the same conditions.

You have a simplistic view of society selling you scripts and you make one event the issue which is not a good sample rate to make a reasonable explanation as to why either Brown did what he did or why Wilson did what he did.

Instead of blindly protecting Wilson I'd suggest you literally go to places where these events happen the most, open your ears when those who live there talk, and shut up and listen. Otherwise you are merely part of the problem.

(November 28, 2014 at 5:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Yes it does make sense. Your failure to understand is not my baggage.

Now let me explain again.

1. As an average our CLIMATE has taught cops to fear the worst and dominate. That is taking into account a bigger sample in a larger context.

2. Outside this event, humans when you confront them in close proximity with an aggressive tone, will react to that space and tone. Again, this is evolutionary having nothing to do with moral judgments. You do not have to justify something, but by observing it you can seek to reduce such situations.

Wilson stopped his car next to them and rolled down his window. In what world is that 'close proximity'? And how do you know that Wilson had an 'aggressive tone'? And what difference does it make? When a police officer tells you to do something, you do it. There is no loophole in the law that says if the police officer is rude, you don't have to listen to them.

(November 28, 2014 at 5:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote: 4. The conditions that lead to this particular event are a collection of social conditioning by society. It is a failure by society to accept a real problem.

What problem? Racism? Walking in the middle of the road? Violence? Resisting police?

(November 28, 2014 at 5:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You have a simplistic view of society selling you scripts and you make one event the issue which is not a good sample rate to make a reasonable explanation as to why either Brown did what he did or why Wilson did what he did.

You're just over complicating this and making it into something it's not. Of course i'm only talking about this one event, it's the thing we're talking about. All i'm doing is asking questions and reveiwing it.

(November 28, 2014 at 5:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Instead of blindly protecting Wilson I'd suggest you literally go to places where these events happen the most, open your ears when those who live there talk, and shut up and listen. Otherwise you are merely part of the problem.

You really aren't listening to what i'm saying are you?
I don't know what happened, i've admitted this. I don't know who was right or wrong. You would know this if you actually calmed down long enough to read and take in my posts. Get that stick out of your ass and listen to what i'm saying. And you didn't even attempt to reply to previous post. What's up with that?

Ok lets make it simple.

Our law enforcement mentality is bent on shoot first and assume guilt.

Our economics suck, and it pits otherwise agreeable middle class and poor people against each other. Poverty is treated like a crime rather than a condition.

Our gun fetish society pits law enforcement against society, creating needless fear between the two.

Humans with darker skin tones are affected worse by economics and arrest. ON AVERAGE, the climate under the similar conditions, light skin people are MORE LIKELY, even if resisting, to make it to the back of a police car with minimal to no injury. Light skin people are going to be punished less harshly by our courts.

Now if you do not accept that, then you are part of the problem. If you do not want it to be about race, then you have to accept that it is a problem in the first place to fix the problem.

THE REAL ISSUE is the economy and male testosterone. If everyone wants to fix it, then race cannot be taken out of the issue until it is accepted both as intentional and unintentional.

That is as simple as I can make it. Now please stop distracting people with bullshit. Brown was not allowed to be a typical teenager doing stupid shit. Wilson was not small himself, and if he had kept his distance instead of playing Barney bad ass with a badge, Brown would not be dead and Wilson would not even be under scrutiny.

Wilson was in the position of power. Wilson had the gun. Now if we want less events like this, and we dont want Brown dead, and we want cops to go home safely, then you cant simply blame Brown. That is a narrow view and utter bullshit for the reasons I stated before.

If you aren't actually going to discuss this and respond to what I said, then i'm afraid this is where I leave you. For the second time, there wasn't even an attempt to respond to my previous post or questions. Have fun shouting at no one.

(November 29, 2014 at 9:40 am)Brian37 Wrote: That is as simple as I can make it. Now please stop distracting people with bullshit. Brown was not allowed to be a typical teenager doing stupid shit. Wilson was not small himself, and if he had kept his distance instead of playing Barney bad ass with a badge, Brown would not be dead and Wilson would not even be under scrutiny.

If Brown had not committed strong armed robbery and then proceeded to walk down the middle of the street....Brown would still be alive and Wilson would not even be under scrutiny.

You know why I do what I do? And not just on this topic? But also on economics and religion?

Because humans in general get stuck in the moment, get stuck on details, and most of our failure in problem solving is not looking at a bigger sample rate. Not looking at the bigger picture.

Now if you are concerned with the long term, then you need stop having a childish kneejerk reaction to someone saying that you, are distracted by the moment.

It is about FOCUS.

This event and similar events keep happening because of the climate. That is no different than understanding how hurricanes form.

So keep talking about Brown and Wilson, that doesn't address a damned thing long term. Your failure to look at the long term conditions is the same reason Mesopotamia and Muslims and Jews keep repeating the same mistakes.

If all the crap you argued were that simple to solve problems you would not see this happen over and over. Just like Muslims and Jews point fingers, repeat the same bullshit, and cannot understand why it keeps happening.

You are getting upset because I am not distracted and putting the focus where it needs to be, not where your narrow sample rate puts it.

Okay everyone, Brians gone mad. He sounds just like Riketto.

(November 29, 2014 at 10:59 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Okay everyone, Brians gone mad. He sounds just like Riketto.

No he is just anal.

<snip>

You guys should read a bit on Darren Wilson's mom. She defrauded 100s of thousands of dollars from neighbors, According to public records Wilson's mother pleaded guilty to six counts of forgery and one count of stealing at the 11th Judicial Court in St Louis.

In 1998 she had already admitted another six counts of stealing in an unrelated matter.

His mother's victims say however that she did not serve any time in jail and went into bankruptcy in October 2002

The following month she died.

I know it does not prove anything but maybe it might speak about his character. I just posted this because I like to think of a cop who is squeaky clean, if he finds money in the street he goes out of his way to find the owner, not a guy who steals money and jewelry from a dead man, which happened in my state. What happened to the good guys?????