(December 1, 2014 at 9:33 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Is there somewhere that has any analysis of the evidence presented to the Grand Jury that isn'y massively partisan with hardline pre-drawn conclusions one way or another? I'm trying to investigate this issue as best I can but all I see are articles saying Wilson did everything right or Wilson is Hitler.

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Nope, focusing on one moment in time does not address the long term conditions that lead to mistrust. You can argue intent all you want.

Accept evolution, understand psychology as to human behavior in general.

I am not personally calling Wilson "Hitler". I am saying he is full of shit in what he claimed as far as being afraid of Brown. Now, it does not have to be deliberate lying. I really hate either/or because nothing is ever either/or. I am thinking about the long term conditions.

I think Wilson went in to that call with a bad attitude. I think he went in to that call with an ego. All legal issues aside, just because the laws say you can does not make it a good idea. I think Wilson wanted to show Brown who the boss was, and only got scared after he realized he got in over his head.

I think Wilson compartmentalized his actions and I think he deluded himself into justifying his actions. Arguing law is not my point.

Brown's parents are not arguing that their son had the legal right to physically confront Wilson. What they are arguing is what blacks have known for far too long. That they are hurt economically and by over policing and presumption of guilt, getting punished harsher, and are more likely to end up dead. Regardless of what Brown did, a box of cigars and a shove should not end up in a death sentence.

I have kept pointing out similar conditions where whites do stupid shit and do not end up dead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/30...44604.html

If the majority of cops in the article above had the same view, I would have no doubt you would not see all this division. You would not see Brown's parents getting upset. You would not see nationwide protests.

If everyone wants it not to be about race, then you have to accept that it is a problem first, and it doesn't have to be intentional, even if some are intentional bigots. There are also others who are simply unaware of their own conditioning.

Uh..Brian, I literally just asked for somewhere to read up on the stuff, I didn't say a damn thing about either side one way or another.

(December 1, 2014 at 1:01 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Uh..Brian, I literally just asked for somewhere to read up on the stuff, I didn't say a damn thing about either side one way or another.

I wasn't accusing you of choosing sides. I was advising you not to get stuck in the moment.

Our divisions exist because of long term conditions.

Yes, I'm aware...

(December 1, 2014 at 12:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am not personally calling Wilson "Hitler". I am saying he is full of shit in what he claimed as far as being afraid of Brown.

The only person who can really know that is Wilson himself. How do you know what he was feeling?

(December 1, 2014 at 5:41 am)A Theist Wrote:

(December 1, 2014 at 1:25 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Well, maybe if the police spent more time going after looters and less time beating up peaceful protesters and firing upon media camera crews, they'd have done a better job keeping the looting under control.

I see. A bunch of protestors were walking down the street, peacefully protesting, minding their own business, when a bunch of cops, without provocation, just started wailing away on them for no reason at all, whatsoever. Uh huh.

Oh not without reason, Adolf. They were black. Who needs more of a reason than that?

Must bring back happy memories of Kristallnacht to you.

BTW, I see where it was announced that Alois Brunner died. My condolences on your loss.

(December 1, 2014 at 2:03 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote:

(December 1, 2014 at 12:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am not personally calling Wilson "Hitler". I am saying he is full of shit in what he claimed as far as being afraid of Brown.

The only person who can really know that is Wilson himself. How do you know what he was feeling?

You are once again arguing the moment, I am arguing conditions.

You cannot tell me it makes any sense to confront someone that big at a seated position at tactical disadvantage because you are scared of them.

That does not come across as fear. I have seen plenty of fights between boys and men. The act of slamming that door into Brown's legs doesn't sound like fear. That sounds like a man loosing his cool.

Same stupid mistake of confusing explanation for excuse.

No one is excusing Brown. I am saying it makes no sense to claim you were afraid.

If someone that big verbally confronts you and you know it could be trouble, and again, I have seen this plenty of times between boys and men. If you know something is going to be a threat to you, you have two choices.

Make it worse by lighting the fuse. Or backing off and making space to avoid it getting worse.

I have seen both happen, not even with cops, just boys and men fighting in general. It does not take a slide rule to figure this out.

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You are once again arguing the moment, I am arguing conditions.

Ok lets ask you again and see if you can actually answer the question. How do you know what Wilson was feeling?

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You cannot tell me it makes any sense to confront someone that big at a seated position at tactical disadvantage because you are scared of them.

Maybe because he wasn't scared at the time because he had no reason to be. But after the events turned hostile, he then had a reason to be scared. He 'confronted' Brown for walking in the road by rolling down his window and telling him to stop doing that. Was Wilson somehow supposed to anticipate what happened next? Is he supposed to approach every situation imaginable as if the worst could happen? Are these questions i'm posing ever going to be answered?

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: That does not come across as fear. I have seen plenty of fights between boys and men. The act of slamming that door into Brown's legs doesn't sound like fear. That sounds like a man loosing his cool.

You know, for someone who keeps screaming at others for being biased, you sure are biased yourself. How do you know that Wilson slammed his door into Browns legs? How do you that Wilson's version is wrong? That Brown repeatedly slammed Wilson's door shut when he was attempting to get out of his car?

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No one is excusing Brown. I am saying it makes no sense to claim you were afraid.

I think it makes perfect sense.

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If someone that big verbally confronts you and you know it could be trouble, and again, I have seen this plenty of times between boys and men. If you know something is going to be a threat to you, you have two choices.

There wasn't exactly a lot of dialoge between the two before it kicked off. How exactly, after a few words, are either of them supposed to know the others intentions? And stop saying 'verbally confront' or actually define what that means, because at the moment it seems to mean: initiate a conversation with someone.

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Make it worse by lighting the fuse. Or backing off and making space to avoid it getting worse.

Except that Wilson has a job to do, you know, uphold the law? Walking in the road is illegal isn't it? Should Wilson not have told Brown to get out of the road on the off chance that there would be trouble? How could he possibly have known that there would be trouble? Because Brown was black?

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I have seen both happen, not even with cops, just boys and men fighting in general. It does not take a slide rule to figure this out.

Fantastic! If there's one thing we can take away from your ramblings, it's that you've seen things so that makes your opinion, and your interpretation more valid than anyone elses.

(December 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 1, 2014 at 2:03 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: The only person who can really know that is Wilson himself. How do you know what he was feeling?

You are once again arguing the moment, I am arguing conditions.

You argue the moment when it serves you and retreat to arguing conditions when your previous argument is demolished.

148 feet with a pistol? Pretty good shooting...or, as the video suggests...the cops were and still are...full of shit.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/20...tail=email

Quote:For 104 days, the police have lied and said Mike Brown was killed 35 feet away from Darren Wilson's SUV. It was actually 148 feet.

This distance is essential to the defense and how Darren Wilson must demonstrate that he "reasonably feared for his safety." At the point in which Mike Brown ran half a football field away, how reasonable is it for an armed officer to fear anyone?

On the afternoon of August 9, 2014, Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Mike Brown, an unarmed teenager, in Ferguson, Missouri. Below is the first video filmed from Canfield Drive, where the shooting occurred, showing the exact measurement between where Darren Wilson's SUV was parked and Mike Brown died. After that, we methodically debunk the lie that Mike Brown was killed in close proximity to Darren Wilson's SUV.