(December 1, 2014 at 2:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: God could just put the baby straight into heaven. Instead he has it born and then die very quickly, traumatising everyone involved. What a prick.

That's why I always say, think Ted Bundy when it comes to gods psyche.

(December 1, 2014 at 2:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: God could just put the baby straight into heaven. Instead he has it born and then die very quickly, traumatising everyone involved. What a prick.

Well, he cares about free will, up until the point that he doesn't, which is when he wants to murder somebody.

It all makes perfect sense!

Heh, yeah. The baby had loads of free will in the month before it gets slaughtered or dies of disease or hunger. I bet it really appreciates it.

(December 1, 2014 at 2:18 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(December 1, 2014 at 2:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: God could just put the baby straight into heaven. Instead he has it born and then die very quickly, traumatising everyone involved. What a prick.

Well, he cares about free will, up until the point that he doesn't, which is when he wants to murder somebody.

It all makes perfect sense!

And to think there are people out there that take this seriously.

I love toying with God and free will. God knows everything, even what he will do. So he has no free will!

I've heard the argument that pre cognition isn't the same as pre determination. I agree to an extent, but the problem I have is that if a choice is genuinely going to be made, it should be impossible to have pre cognition of it. Logically impossible I mean.

To demonstrate... Say I am about to walk through either a red or blue door.

Some guy outside the universe has a pre cognition that I will go through the red door. He knows it for definite.

That guy now enters the universe and tells me this pre cognition. Can I choose to go through the blue door?

If I can, pre cognition was wrong. If I cant, I'm not making a choice after all.

---

Of course, this is all assuming there is such a thing as a free choice. I don't believe that personally, I think science will show us more and more that choices are deterministic or based on random activity at the quantum level.

And if they are random... Again, you can't predict random.

(December 2, 2014 at 4:54 am)robvalue Wrote: Some guy outside the universe has a pre cognition that I will go through the red door. He knows it for definite.

That guy now enters the universe and tells me this pre cognition. Can I choose to go through the blue door?

If I can, pre cognition was wrong. If I cant, I'm not making a choice after all.

Yes, you could go through the blue door. One day, however, you might go through a red door at which time ... See, I told you that you would go through a red door.

I could make a prediction and if it survived the time, eventually it would be shown as true. Now attach a timestamp to a prophecy ...

it was a setup god knew what he was doing. nor did take any precaution as to what was going to happen. adam followed eve into eating the apple but instead of god actually killing off adam and eve because one was made of dirt and the other of a rib he had plenty of retries but no he didn't do it.

Yeah nice save with the vague prophecy

I should have made it clearer that he predicted I was going to do it 5 seconds after telling me I would do it.

To take the question further, say God knows I will go through the red door in 5 seconds. 100% no messing about, he's God and knows everything. I will go through the red door in 5 seconds.

Can God choose to replace that red door with a brick wall in those 5 seconds?

(December 3, 2014 at 2:51 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah nice save with the vague prophecy

I should have made it clearer that he predicted I was going to do it 5 seconds after telling me I would do it.

To take the question further, say God knows I will go through the red door in 5 seconds. 100% no messing about, he's God and knows everything. I will go through the red door in 5 seconds.

Can God choose to replace that red door with a brick wall in those 5 seconds?

He could but god is to fucking lazy.