(December 1, 2014 at 2:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: God could just put the baby straight into heaven. Instead he has it born and then die very quickly, traumatising everyone involved. What a prick.

That's why I always say, think Ted Bundy when it comes to gods psyche.

(December 1, 2014 at 2:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: God could just put the baby straight into heaven. Instead he has it born and then die very quickly, traumatising everyone involved. What a prick.

Well, he cares about free will, up until the point that he doesn't, which is when he wants to murder somebody.

It all makes perfect sense!

Heh, yeah. The baby had loads of free will in the month before it gets slaughtered or dies of disease or hunger. I bet it really appreciates it.

(December 1, 2014 at 2:18 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(December 1, 2014 at 2:15 pm)robvalue Wrote: God could just put the baby straight into heaven. Instead he has it born and then die very quickly, traumatising everyone involved. What a prick.

Well, he cares about free will, up until the point that he doesn't, which is when he wants to murder somebody.

It all makes perfect sense!

And to think there are people out there that take this seriously.

I love toying with God and free will. God knows everything, even what he will do. So he has no free will!

I've heard the argument that pre cognition isn't the same as pre determination. I agree to an extent, but the problem I have is that if a choice is genuinely going to be made, it should be impossible to have pre cognition of it. Logically impossible I mean.

To demonstrate... Say I am about to walk through either a red or blue door.

Some guy outside the universe has a pre cognition that I will go through the red door. He knows it for definite.

That guy now enters the universe and tells me this pre cognition. Can I choose to go through the blue door?

If I can, pre cognition was wrong. If I cant, I'm not making a choice after all.

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Of course, this is all assuming there is such a thing as a free choice. I don't believe that personally, I think science will show us more and more that choices are deterministic or based on random activity at the quantum level.

And if they are random... Again, you can't predict random.

(December 2, 2014 at 4:54 am)robvalue Wrote: Some guy outside the universe has a pre cognition that I will go through the red door. He knows it for definite.

That guy now enters the universe and tells me this pre cognition. Can I choose to go through the blue door?

If I can, pre cognition was wrong. If I cant, I'm not making a choice after all.

Yes, you could go through the blue door. One day, however, you might go through a red door at which time ... See, I told you that you would go through a red door.

I could make a prediction and if it survived the time, eventually it would be shown as true. Now attach a timestamp to a prophecy ...

it was a setup god knew what he was doing. nor did take any precaution as to what was going to happen. adam followed eve into eating the apple but instead of god actually killing off adam and eve because one was made of dirt and the other of a rib he had plenty of retries but no he didn't do it.

Yeah nice save with the vague prophecy

I should have made it clearer that he predicted I was going to do it 5 seconds after telling me I would do it.

To take the question further, say God knows I will go through the red door in 5 seconds. 100% no messing about, he's God and knows everything. I will go through the red door in 5 seconds.

Can God choose to replace that red door with a brick wall in those 5 seconds?

(November 29, 2014 at 11:21 am)JaceDeanLove Wrote: I have thought this for awhile, but I decided to share. I think the whole Garden of Eden scenario was ENTIRELY God's doing. He created Adam and Eve, and was in control of EVERYTHING. He's supposedly omni-everything. If that's the case, he knew they would eat the fruit. In fact, he saw them eat the fruit. And not only that! He placed the tree in the garden (instead of on a tree in a volcano, on Mars.) In fact, idk why he even made the tree anyway. Secondly, he told Adam and Eve not to eat from it. That makes a lot of people wanna do the opposite. He also let the serpent into the garden, and let him convince Adam and Eve. Remember, God controls ALL of this! Lastly... If Adam and Eve were good, how did they sin? And, if the tree gave them knowledge of right and wrong, how did they know it was wrong to eat from it?? I would like everyone's input. I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.

Jace

The Garden of Eden with Adam & Eve were just down the road from Assyria, Ethiopia, Arabia, and Persia.

Genesis 2:20-14 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...A;EXB;NKJV

The king of Tyre lived in the Garden of Eden. Tyre is in Lebanon on the coast. So he was probably a Phoenician vassal king, maybe to the Hittites. He probably collaborated with the Egyptians against his ruler, hence the meme of the talking serpent. The Egyptian pharaohs used a serpent figure on their crowns.

Anyway, Assyria & Ethiopia were there with Adam & Eve and they were there after Noah's flood, having suffered no flood damage.

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(November 30, 2014 at 9:18 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 29, 2014 at 11:39 pm)professor Wrote: Haven't you atheist had any kids?

You tell them- Do NOT go in the street. That street is dangerous.
And still you watch them because you do not trust their judgment.

Actually, I haven't any children of my own, but I get the point you are trying to make, and the point fails utterly.

Yes, I would absolutely tell a child of mine, 'Don't go into the street, dear, it's very dangerous.' And yes, I would keep an eye on my child. But then your analogy falls apart.

God did nothing - absolutely nothing - to prevent Eve from eating the fruit and continued to do nothing when she offered Adam the fruit. If I saw my child about to wander into the street, I would make a mad dash to grab her before she got injured. If she picked up a table knife after I told her not to, I would take it from her. If I saw her climbing into a pen with a littered sow (I grew up on a farm), I would stop her. Christians are fond of make a parent analogy regarding God, and it just doesn't wash. Responsible parents not only warn their children about dangers and watch them, they take steps to protect their children. If your analogy worked, I'd let my child wander into a busy road - while I watched her do it - just for the satisfaction of seeing her killed or crippled so I could crow, 'See what happens when you disobey me?'

Stop using the 'God is a loving parent analogy'. He isn't. If God were a human parent, he'd be brought up on abuse charges.

Boru

The God character was just one in the series of men who ruled the various Middle East empires during ancient times. He could have been an Assyrian, Babylonian, or even a Hittite such as Solomon. There are no invisible sky deities who pal around with man.

(December 3, 2014 at 2:51 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah nice save with the vague prophecy

I should have made it clearer that he predicted I was going to do it 5 seconds after telling me I would do it.

To take the question further, say God knows I will go through the red door in 5 seconds. 100% no messing about, he's God and knows everything. I will go through the red door in 5 seconds.

Can God choose to replace that red door with a brick wall in those 5 seconds?

He could but god is to fucking lazy.