(December 31, 2014 at 9:42 am)Alex K Wrote: The fact that it's self-reinforcing, i.e., with positive feedback, could mean that small more or less random fluctuations gave rise to it.

In that case we'd expect fairly equal numbers of male- and female-led societies and egalitarian societies. What we see is that the vast majority of societies in history have favored men over women. This indicates that there is a biological aspect which began these laws and customs. The laws and custom may then have been self-reinforcing.

(December 31, 2014 at 11:09 am)alpha male Wrote:

(December 31, 2014 at 9:42 am)Alex K Wrote: The fact that it's self-reinforcing, i.e., with positive feedback, could mean that small more or less random fluctuations gave rise to it.

In that case we'd expect fairly equal numbers of male- and female-led societies and egalitarian societies. What we see is that the vast majority of societies in history have favored men over women. This indicates that there is a biological aspect which began these laws and customs. The laws and custom may then have been self-reinforcing.

Societies have also favoured religion over atheism and inhumane practices such as slavery or torture... Stop talking about biology, I don't think it means what you think it means

(December 31, 2014 at 11:32 am)Blackout Wrote: Societies have also favoured religion over atheism and inhumane practices such as slavery or torture... Stop talking about biology, I don't think it means what you think it means

There are plenty of people who think there are biological reasons that society favors religion over atheism. One example:
THe Biological Roots of Religion

(December 31, 2014 at 10:11 am)paulpablo Wrote: Tom Brady is 6 ft 3, 224 kg in weight 40 yard dash 5.28 seconds plus obviously the skill he has.

No wonder his time in the forty is so low!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

(December 31, 2014 at 9:42 am)Alex K Wrote: Does anyone here argue for complete biological equality?

No, and it's important to distinguish the difference. Much of the push-back from the criticism of gender stereotypes seems to be an argument about biological differences, not gender stereotypes.

It's important to differentiate between biological limitations and limitations we have created ourselves that were the result of the culture that was shaped by those biological limitations in our early evolutionary path.

I think stereotyping is just statistics in action. For example, there's a 9/10 chance that my dick is bigger than that of any random girl that I meet.

(December 30, 2014 at 2:09 pm)Natachan Wrote: The other day I talked with my parents and my brother. My eldest brother is 23 now, and I'm 27, and I began thinking after talking to him.

Most of the time I don't think about gender stereotypes. I'm aware of them, I have always been, but since I am a student I don't have much time to dwell on them and most of the time it's just to say fuck it. But talking to him I did think on it. I am a woman. I can fix wiring in my home, do maintanence on my car including brakes belts and wiring, I do carpentry, I work making and testing concrete, I am a student of engineering. Add to this I can neither cook not sew. I am horrid at cleaning, wear work boots and jeans stained with concrete and grease (nice clothes are not compatible with cranes and concrete mixers :p ). Almost all female stereotypes I scorn. My brother is a music major. He is an excellent cook, and a good musician. He is stylish, and takes great pride in his suits. He can knit. And he is inept with any physical task. He can't even change a tire. He doesn't play sports, he has disdain for them, despite the fact that he is tall and very strong. He is also aware of the gender stereotypes, but I don't know what he thinks of them, except that he laughs at a number of them.

Both of is receive some trouble from these. For my brother in his chosen profession it only amounts to a little mocking. But in myself, I don't like it. I've never liked it. When I was a young girl growing up I beat up any boy who spoke them to me. By genetic accident I am, and was, bigger and stronger than most of them (I'm 5'9", and fairly strong and well muscled). As an adult it varies from glances at me I'm not supposed to notice to having to fight against preferential treatment given to my male classmates. I don't like people who look at me like I'm broken, or that I'm abnormal. Simply because I won't plaster my face with powders and I don't dress or act like they think I should.

But why? Why do these stereotypes exist and wha purpose do they serve (other than to irritate)? I know that men don't all hate or oppress women, but they are aware of those stereotypes as well as I am. Even those men who are my friends and acquaintances still see me as somewhat odd.

Lots of them are true. I think people sometimes confuse stereotypes with the idea that it applies to every individual. Of course it doesn't. Whatever you and your brother are like doesn't really matter when compared to the whole population.

Quote:Lots of them are true. I think people sometimes confuse stereotypes with the idea that it applies to every individual. Of course it doesn't. Whatever you and your brother are like doesn't really matter when compared to the whole population.

(Bold mine) - I'd like to know what stereotypes are true without counting the ones that are deliberately perpetuated by people on purpose?

And yes, the idea of a stereotype is to gather a number of characteristics that are supposed to describe a specific group without exceptions. People who believe certain stereotypes genuinely think any member of the stereotyped group bears those characteristics.

(December 31, 2014 at 6:35 pm)Blackout Wrote:

Quote:Lots of them are true. I think people sometimes confuse stereotypes with the idea that it applies to every individual. Of course it doesn't. Whatever you and your brother are like doesn't really matter when compared to the whole population.

(Bold mine) - I'd like to know what stereotypes are true without counting the ones that are deliberately perpetuated by people on purpose?

And yes, the idea of a stereotype is to gather a number of characteristics that are supposed to describe a specific group without exceptions. People who believe certain stereotypes genuinely think any member of the stereotyped group bears those characteristics.

I think you and I have different ideas of what makes a stereotype. I don't think people necessarily think that a stereotype applies to every single person of so and so group. If I say that men and stronger then women (duh) I would think it's implied that I don't believe every single man is stronger than every single woman. Again, Duh.

Well I'm going to use one brought up in the opening post, which is that women aren't good at working on cars or mechanics. I also am not good at working on cars. In high school even less. On a test called the ASVAB I scored in the bottom 30% when compared to other men in Automotive knowledge. However it's was in something like the top 20% if I was compared to women. So if someone says women don't know anything about cars, obviously they don't mean all of them and equally obviously it is a true statement.