I think God, spirituality, afterlife etc. are all just in our imagination. They stem from a desire for life to be more than it appears to, to add meaning and easy answers.

No such things have ever been demonstrated and I don't think they are ever likely to be. But some sort of observable, repeatable evidence would be a start. I have no idea what this would be, because everyone's description about these things are different. This alone adds more weight to them being imaginary.

I've yet to read even a single coherent falsifiable claim about God, spirituality or the afterlife.

(January 2, 2015 at 10:02 am)W.Smith Wrote: What do you all think about this 'something more than our normal life'?

Perhaps we need to approach it from another angle. To wit- what drives this thought? Most likely, the desire for it to be true. But as we usually learn very early on, wanting something to be true is insufficient. I neither expect nor demand anything more from life, as I've had a fairly pleasant one and been happy for most of it. I am not even sure that I would want there to be an afterlife, but that's mostly because I am so unconcerned about it that I don't spend any time thinking about it.

(December 29, 2014 at 7:11 am)W.Smith Wrote: Seriously. I have joined to find answers to the big questions in life. I cannot believe in anything just because someone says so... and that goes both ways - both by religions and by nonbelievers. For someone to say there must be a God, for how else can we explain the existence of the universe.... or for someone to say there cannot be a God because we cannot prove the existence of such a God... are equally unacceptable! These are just opposite "view points" but with no real substance. I hope by joining this forum that I can have some proper discussions and ideas/feedback from people who are open-minded and serious.

Most atheists don't say "There cannot be a god." And the two choices you've presented aren't the only ones available.

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(December 29, 2014 at 10:50 am)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(December 29, 2014 at 10:49 am)Alex K Wrote: What! I'm too serious. I once sat through an entire Seinfeld episode without laughing even once!

That's because that show is seriously terrible.

Dead. To. Me.

Welcome, W!

(December 29, 2014 at 7:11 am)W.Smith Wrote: Seriously. I have joined to find answers to the big questions in life. I cannot believe in anything just because someone says so... and that goes both ways - both by religions and by nonbelievers. For someone to say there must be a God, for how else can we explain the existence of the universe.... or for someone to say there cannot be a God because we cannot prove the existence of such a God... are equally unacceptable! These are just opposite "view points" but with no real substance. I hope by joining this forum that I can have some proper discussions and ideas/feedback from people who are open-minded and serious.

I think I can clear this up for you. We atheists don't have anything we want you to believe. I don't have a clue what this god thing is supposed to be. So I don't know what evidence there may or may not be. Now if you want to take a flying leap of faith and believe in this .. what ever it may be, go ahead. Fine with me. I have no reason why you shouldn't. I simply see no reason to do so for myself. I generally don't believe in seemingly weird, undefined shit on a whim myself. Doesn't mean you can't. If it makes you happy, have at it.

Doesn't mean you won't be welcome here and there may be lots of other topics which we may share an interest in discussing. So welcome aboard brave leaper .. if you are a believer in the 'beyond'.

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(January 2, 2015 at 10:02 am)W.Smith Wrote: What do you all think about this 'something more than our normal life'? Personally I find it frustrating we don't know more about our existence... (because that at least ought to be a fact... LOL). So what kind of prof would we need to satisfy our desire to know that the concept of God is real, at least with some certainty? (I call it 'concept' because I don't want the question to be about appearance)

Well I certainly think there is plenty going on below our own surface to fill me with wonder. Aside from your conscious mind there is a vast cavern of processing going on of which you are rarely aware. Don't know it for a fact of course, but I am aware of a depth and even an otherness within. Call it god if you want but then I don't think this 'god' has any separate existence. Nor do I think it created the cosmos. It did, in a sense created your conscious mind and assembles the world as you experience it consciously. If you're content with that much god then I have no problem discussing god with you. 'God' in this sense is intra- or trans- personal, but not interpersonal.

Do we have any common ground?

(January 2, 2015 at 9:15 am)W.Smith Wrote: do you think that there is something or do you think there is nothing after we die?

All evidence points to nothing.

Welcome aboard. Nice to see someone using their brain for a change instead of just buying whatever bullshit happens to be for sale at the moment.

(January 9, 2015 at 7:48 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(December 29, 2014 at 7:11 am)W.Smith Wrote: Seriously. I have joined to find answers to the big questions in life. I cannot believe in anything just because someone says so... and that goes both ways - both by religions and by nonbelievers. For someone to say there must be a God, for how else can we explain the existence of the universe.... or for someone to say there cannot be a God because we cannot prove the existence of such a God... are equally unacceptable! These are just opposite "view points" but with no real substance. I hope by joining this forum that I can have some proper discussions and ideas/feedback from people who are open-minded and serious.

I think I can clear this up for you. We atheists don't have anything we want you to believe. I don't have a clue what this god thing is supposed to be. So I don't know what evidence there may or may not be. Now if you want to take a flying leap of faith and believe in this .. what ever it may be, go ahead. Fine with me. I have no reason why you shouldn't. I simply see no reason to do so for myself. I generally don't believe in seemingly weird, undefined shit on a whim myself. Doesn't mean you can't. If it makes you happy, have at it.

Doesn't mean you won't be welcome here and there may be lots of other topics which we may share an interest in discussing. So welcome aboard brave leaper .. if you are a believer in the 'beyond'.

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(January 2, 2015 at 10:02 am)W.Smith Wrote: What do you all think about this 'something more than our normal life'? Personally I find it frustrating we don't know more about our existence... (because that at least ought to be a fact... LOL). So what kind of prof would we need to satisfy our desire to know that the concept of God is real, at least with some certainty? (I call it 'concept' because I don't want the question to be about appearance)

Well I certainly think there is plenty going on below our own surface to fill me with wonder. Aside from your conscious mind there is a vast cavern of processing going on of which you are rarely aware. Don't know it for a fact of course, but I am aware of a depth and even an otherness within. Call it god if you want but then I don't think this 'god' has any separate existence. Nor do I think it created the cosmos. It did, in a sense created your conscious mind and assembles the world as you experience it consciously. If you're content with that much god then I have no problem discussing god with you. 'God' in this sense is intra- or trans- personal, but not interpersonal.

Do we have any common ground?

Yes, I think we do. If you by being "aware of a depth and even an otherness within" mean something more than what you see in the mirror - I agree with you. And I also think that if there is some "god" type thing, this "god" does not have a separate existence from us.

You do realize most people will think we're off our rockers or at least soft on theism but .. meh. I just don't think many theists think of 'god' in this way. It doesn't take anything away from the personal significance but it does take it out of the literal.

(January 2, 2015 at 9:15 am)W.Smith Wrote: That was actually funny
But tell me this, do you think that there is something or do you think there is nothing after we die?

I know it's poor form to answer a question with a question, but what did you think of your experiences before you were born?

Yeah, same as me -- nothing.

(December 29, 2014 at 7:11 am)W.Smith Wrote: For someone to say there must be a God, for how else can we explain the existence of the universe.... or for someone to say there cannot be a God because we cannot prove the existence of such a God... are equally unacceptable!

As robvalue and some others have said, most atheists do not acknowledge god, but do not insist that there is none. I on the other hand insist that there is no god. It is like standing in an empty driveway. There is no car, no evidence, nothing to prove. A theist, however, insists that there is a god because the book god wrote says there is a god or they 'feel' there is a god or last, but not least by any stretch of the imagination, they have talked to god.