Just out of curiosity, does anyone here not believe that their should be freedom of speech and religious expression in our country?

Should the humiliation of Christians possibly be considered a hate-crime? Where do you draw the line and does no line take us down a slippery slope?


Love over tongue-lashing or na?[/i]

Could you give an example of what you consider "humiliation of Christians?"

(January 29, 2015 at 12:28 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Could you give an example of what you consider "humiliation of Christians?"

I think it involves the embarrassment felt when firmly espoused dogma is shown to be logically inconsistent or factually incorrect.

(January 29, 2015 at 12:28 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Could you give an example of what you consider "humiliation of Christians?"

Hate speech. Acts that do signifficant physical and or emotional harm. Discrimination in the work place. Discrimination amongst peers. Sectarianism, propaganda, propping up of the "intelligentsia."

Could you give a specific example of something that would qualify as any of this?

Anything that causes significant physical harm would qualify as assault and is already illegal, so we'll move past that. So is discrimination in the workplace.

(January 29, 2015 at 12:25 am)Eager Mind Wrote: Just out of curiosity, does anyone here not believe that their should be freedom of speech and religious expression in our country?

No I wouldn't outlaw religion and yes there should be free speech. However freedom of speech includes the right not only to practice and promote religion but also to ridicule and debunk it.

(January 29, 2015 at 12:25 am)Eager Mind Wrote: Should the humiliation of Christians possibly be considered a hate-crime? Where do you draw the line and does no line take us down a slippery slope?
Love over tongue-lashing or na?[/i]

What do you mean my humiliation? If you mean blasphemy, including creating artwork like this:



Or news coverage of the sexual foibles/crimes of the clergy; or pointing out the historical or scientific errors of the Bible; then there is and should be a Constitutional right to humiliate Christians. We call it freedom of speech. The right to religious expression ends where the rights of others begins.

I draw the line at physical violence and other things that would be a crime if they were committed against anyone, Christian or not.

(January 29, 2015 at 12:36 am)Eager Mind Wrote: Hate speech. Acts that do signifficant physical and or emotional harm. Discrimination in the work place. Discrimination amongst peers. Sectarianism, propaganda, propping up of the "intelligentsia."

(January 29, 2015 at 12:40 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Could you give a specific example of something that would qualify as any of this?

Anything that causes significant physical harm would qualify as assault and is already illegal, so we'll move past that. So is discrimination in the workplace.

Or, maybe provide some evidence that "hate speech" as you've defined it actually takes place in the real world in any way other than one-offs in isolation.

And what the fuck is "intelligentsia?"

(January 29, 2015 at 12:36 am)Eager Mind Wrote:

(January 29, 2015 at 12:28 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Could you give an example of what you consider "humiliation of Christians?"

Hate speech.

Yes, I would be humiliated too if I had to share a label with the likes of the Phelps's church or any number of other Christians who have attempted to justify their bigotry by hiding behind 'Holy Scripture'.

Quote:Acts that do signifficant physical and or emotional harm.

Like exorcisms, 'gay reparative therapy', Bible camps, priests/ministers playing hide the salami, etc.? That kind of physical and/or emotional harm?

Quote:Discrimination in the work place.

Unless the work place is a business with an opinion about divine matters. Then discrimination is legitimized as free exercise.

Quote:Sectarianism, propaganda, propping up of the "intelligentsia."

Walk immediately to the nearest mirror!

(January 29, 2015 at 12:36 am)Eager Mind Wrote: Hate speech. Acts that do signifficant physical and or emotional harm. Discrimination in the work place. Discrimination amongst peers. Sectarianism, propaganda, propping up of the "intelligentsia."

I was afraid of that. It is a slippery slope indeed limiting free speech. I don't think religious feelings should be protected any more than Republican, Democrat, or Nazi feelings should be protected.

(January 29, 2015 at 12:36 am)Eager Mind Wrote: Sectarianism, propaganda, propping up of the "intelligentsia."

Sectarianism is religious behavior and should only be prohibited when it comes in the form of discrimination and then only when governmental, or as already covered by anti-discrimination laws.

Prohibiting propaganda would eliminate much religious expression not protect it. --- No, I would prohibit propaganda because there's no good way to define it.

What do you mean by "propping up of the 'intelligentsia'?" Nothing healthy for free speech is my suspicion. Limiting the rights of educated people to speak is what I'm afraid you mean.

(January 29, 2015 at 12:25 am)Eager Mind Wrote: Just out of curiosity, does anyone here not believe that their should be freedom of speech and religious expression in our country?

Should the humiliation of Christians possibly be considered a hate-crime? Where do you draw the line and does no line take us down a slippery slope?


Love over tongue-lashing or na?[/i]

Humiliation of christians.. dude they have been humiliating them selves for centuries i just so happen to think that mind set is hysterical i mean with all the evidence going against it and using blind faith yeah no its not a hate crime its just hatred of ignorance.