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Dystopia · March 5, 2015 at 5:46 am

(March 4, 2015 at 10:42 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Not funded by the state, no.

But subsidized, very much so.

I thought both words meant the same. That's what I meant Wink

ManMachine · March 5, 2015 at 6:41 am

(March 4, 2015 at 9:55 pm)Zenith Wrote:

It's nice I found English articles about it,
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/181093...asses.html

http://patriarhia.ro/enrolling-for-relig...27-en.html

So, we've got quite a controversy here, in the latest months, with all kinds of TV broadcasts with fanatic Church representatives & supporters who get all crazy about the idea that a man should be FREE to choose for his son not to join the Divinity classes (aka Religion classes) - which mostly means Christian Orthodox - insisting that the class of Religion must be compulsory for everyone (including children of atheists and agnostics), in order for them to receive a "proper education".

Now that the Religion class became optional, in the meaning that the parents of the children must sign a request for their children to join the Religion class, the Church came with the following initiative: A contest is organized where the children write an essay entitled "Why is the Divinity class important to me?"
Additional notes: "Several prizes will be granted for each of the three education cycles (primary, gymnasium, high school), like this: 1st prize - 700 lei, 2nd prize: 500 lei, third prize: 300 lei. There will be a special prize, 1000" (prizes for "the most beautiful essay on the subject")
The minimum net wage in Romania is ~600 lei (aprox $150), while the minium pension is ~300 lei.

"Who are invited to participate? All students who love the Religion class and desire to share with others their appreciations".
--- In other words, fearing that the number of students who attend the Religion class might drop, and thus, the teachers / priests who teach / preach there might suffer, and that the number of religious people might thus drop over years, the Church came with the ingenious idea of paying the people to choose to join the classes. Besides of the fact that, of course, many inspectorates summoned the (high) schools principals alongside Archbishops / whatever, and the Principals of the schools were being advised by these Church leaders to influence the parents into opting for the Religion class, despite the Constitutional Court who decided that the decision must not be influenced.

The following pictures are from a demonstration / protest against the decision of the Constitutional Court who decided the Religion class to be optional (for 25 years the respective law article existed against the Constitution)
The images I can read state, "The Orthodox Church is the mother of the Romanian people", "The Orthodoxy is the sap of the Romanian people", "Our voievodes have defended the Christianity of Europe", "Religion in school - National priority"

Another news comes with the title "The High All-Holy Teodosie: He would would renounce, of the parents, to the Religion class, would mutilate his own child."

Joy of joys.

P.S. Romania is 85% Orthodox, but it's unknown how many actual believers there are, because there are many who had been baptized as Orthodox, but no longer believe, or believe in God but not in the Church or whatever. So something like this would not be unnatural: Q: "What's your religion?"; A: "Orthodox"; Q: "Do you believe in God?"; "No."
Either way, the Church brags about how many supporters it has and acts as if 90% of the people are so devout that they'd be willing to die for it.

P.S. I don't know how the 'Religion' class is actually practiced in other countries of Europe, or how it's called for that sake, so an argument of the Church like "in almost all the European countries, Religion is taught within the public educational system." is very likely a fallacy.

Notice how a lot of the people in the pictures look really un-evolved.

MM

Zenith · (This post was last modified: March 5, 2015 at 7:25 am by Zenith.)

(March 5, 2015 at 5:04 am)Norman Humann Wrote: Oh yeah, RE is "optional" here, too. You don't have to go, but if you don't you need to take ethics if there are any teachers qualified to teach it. If not, you just sit there with the rest of the class, but don't have to do anything.

The joke being, there are two hours a week for RE and one for chemistry, physics and biology.

At least we've got only one per week. Smile

We don't have classes of ethics, neither of History of Religions, though there are a few politicians who believe those subjects are important to be introduced. I believe they're important regardless of whether one is an atheist or not.

The other horror to the Church is the desire of some politicians to change the Religion subject so that students either don't receive marks, or they simply do but the marks not to count at the end-year average mark. If this is implemented, then a lot of students would opt out the Religion class, because the main reason most do opt in for it is because it helps raise the end-year mark (and also, the end-year mark helps after you finish the school / high school, increasing your chances to get at the desired high school / faculty)

(March 5, 2015 at 6:41 am)ManMachine Wrote: Notice how a lot of the people in the pictures look really un-evolved.

At least they don't look angry. More funny were, during the time of presidential elections, the images & video recordings of the supporters of the Prime Minister. The news were saying that there are a lot of young people, but the videos showed virtually all were 60 - 90 years old people, some bored, others angry (why angry? I dunno), shouting with nerve this guy's name:
http://adevarul.ro/assets/adevarul.ro/MR...c/orig.jpg

Zenith · (This post was last modified: March 5, 2015 at 1:24 pm by Zenith.)

Btw, the luck we have is that virtually all media is talking against the Church, whether it is how there are countless churches and many others are still being built while people don't have access to proper health care and lack hospitals and schools, how the Church kicks out people from their own houses for sitting on terrain that the Church earned at the Court (property that either belonged, or they only insist that belonged to the Church before the communism), video recording of classes of religion where the kids are taught that the earth is flat and that the round earth is some kind of wicked conspiracy theory, videos with drunk priests, financial corruption (not paying taxes) of companies that are property of the Church, and so on. So there is hope.

Zenith · (This post was last modified: March 6, 2015 at 5:31 pm by Zenith.)

Btw, funny thing, during a broadcast a few days ago, where people debated over the class of religion, whether it should or should not be compulsory for everyone (since a whole scandal started after the Constitutional Court's decision), one of the guests, Professor in Constitutional Law, if I remember well, who also happened to be the ombudsman some years ago, was defending the compulsoriness of the Religion class on everybody, and said that the decision of the Constitutional Court should be ignored, because they did not decide right, that he knows the Constitution and the guys who are the Constitutional Court these years are STUPID and "I don't know who put them there!"

LOL.

An ex minister of Education said that the class of Religion must be held compulsory to everybody, despite the fact that the Constitutional Court decided otherwise, because (lying) "The religion class has always been compulsory in our country!" and bringing up "traditional values" and that we must live by the same teachings that our ancestors and voivodes lived by, and in the same culture (smth like, "it defines us as a nation!").

There was some priest guest as well, some high position, I don't remember what, claiming that the decision of the Constitution contradicts the Constitution itself, by the fact that it goes against the "spiritual unity of the people"
The only reference I found in the Constitution about unity says this:
"The state has as foundation the unity of the romanian people and the solidarity of its citizens"
So this was translated, by the priest, to mean that "all people must have the same faith and practice the same religion and must be protected from not being indoctrinated into the Christian Orthodoxy!"

=))))))))))

P.S. And the National Council of Audio-Video recommended to all TV channels to FREELY post advertising prepared by the Orthodox Church, where well known people and national "stars" were advising people to opt in for the class of religion, trying to express how much it means to them and to their own children to have it, and how valuable it is.

Zenith · (This post was last modified: March 7, 2015 at 2:09 pm by Zenith.)

Final results, astounding...

It appears that 89.75% of the current students have been opted in for the Religion class (for the remaining of this year), and 93.45% of the kids who will start first year of school are opted in for the next year.

I would like to believe that the simple reason for this is that the mark given at the class of Religion adds up to the final grade of the end of the year, and thus adds up to the formula computing the final school grade, which helps when the student needs to go a high school or university. And in my wishful thinking, I'm saying to myself that if there had been no grades given to the students in the class of Religion, then not even 50% of the students would continue to attend. But... could it really be so? Or this is actually the middle ages?

The fact is that I don't see that many people around, and at news, fanatical about the religion class. And this high percentage helps the senators and deputies and the Church into believing that ~90% of the population is very religious and that they (senators & deputies) must continue using religion and supporting the Church in order to have higher chances of being elected.

P.S. Funny (related) joke:
Within a class of Religion.
PRIEST: Johnny, who was Charles Darwin?
Johnny: I don't know.
PRIEST: Perfect! A+

**robvalue** · March 7, 2015 at 2:08 pm

I'd be fine if they actualy taught people about religion objectively. In fact, christians would instantly want that stopped.

Zenith · (This post was last modified: March 7, 2015 at 2:43 pm by Zenith.)

Take a look at the Manual of Religion for the 1st grade (ages 7 - 8), from the official site of the patriarchate (it's with pictures):

http://patriarhia.ro/images/pdf/Invatama...clasaI.pdf

I'll translate a few things:
"THE CHURCH IS THE HOUSE OF GOD"
"THE CHURCH IS A HOLY PLACE"

"What do we learn from the Bible?
That Jesus Christ started to go, even from very young ages, to the House of His Father."

"What do we learn from the Saints?
The Holy Voivode Stephen the Great had built a lot of churches."
(btw, Stephen the Great was far from being a saint, since he was an adulterer and many other things, but he's built lots of churches)

"HOW DO I RECEIVE GOD WITHIN THE CHURCH?"
"THE HOLY LITURGY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SERVICE"

"What do we learn from the Saints?
The Saint John Golden-Mouth wrote the text of the Liturgy that is most often done in the church."
(note: What a funny name! he's a Romanian-only saint, as well)

The one with the title:
"HOW DO I RECEIVE GOD WITHIN THE CHURCH (II)"
Is the one showing the child kneeling in front of the priest, as if prepared (if we are to worry) to suck his d*ck. But this kneeling under the "lap" of the priest is a holy thing, nothing to do with sexuality... if done properly.

"WHAT DO I DO FOR MY CHURCH?"
(saying that the Church uses money to help the poor - it only says that it does, though)

"THE CHURCH NEIGHBORING MY SCHOOL
What do we attempt?
To make a folding of the church neighboring my school.
What for?
So as to familiarize ourselves with the presence inside the church."

"At the Church, Andrei and Ioana have learnt that the man who has inside his soul faith as much as a grain of mustard seed can make miracles."

"THE HOLY APOSTLES BELIEVED THAT LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD"

"The holy apostle Andrei is the protector of Romania."

"The holy Joseph the New had prayed for an ill man, and God listened to his prayer and healed him" - (about the power of prayer) - prayers heal, not medics & medicine & technology & etc.

"A. Jesus Christ was born at:
a) 6th of December
b) 25th of December
c) 6th of January"
LOL.

"PROJECT: ALBUM, "THE BIRTH OF THE LORD"
...
What for?
...
So as to value the local traditions related to the Birth of the Lord."

"THE CODE OF GOOD MANNERS REGARDING THE SALUTE OF THE CHRISTIANS AT THE HOLY EASTER
...
What for?
To understand the importance of the salutation within the human relations.
To learn the rules of the pascal salutation.
To learn the greeting and the attitude during the salutation.
To understand the importance of the pascal salutation to the life of the christian."

Zenith · March 9, 2015 at 7:08 pm

I've just read an article of news about the religion class, entitled "Reportage: How Romanians see the religion class"

"Another woman said she enlisted her boy, but she declares herself dissatisfied of some things taught at this class of Religion. "I'm not satisfied of what they do in class. They were told in the first year that Santa Claus does not exist. This is the problem of the parents." the mother of the boy says.

LOL. These people are responsible for deciding how their children are being educated at school and this is the level of their understanding and of their concern about it. Hahaha!

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