(March 20, 2015 at 2:46 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 19, 2015 at 12:41 pm)Surgenator Wrote: I'm not saying people don't have NDE's. I'm saying the experience they're having are equivalent to hallucinations. You're the one who has to show there is more to their experience than a hallucination equivalent.

You never know son.
One day they may prove you correct and the thousand of people who had an NDE wrong.
They may even give you a Nobel prize for your scientific knowledge.
In the meantime i rely on what make more sense regardless of the number of witnesses.

You're the one who has the burden of proof not me. You have to show that what these people are experiencing is something outside of their brains. I don't have to do anything to justify my lack of belief.

Quote:

Quote:Plus, you keep dodging the UFO topic. Do you believe the UFO abductees?

No, i don't.
I believe in universal laws in which people who live in a certain planet can not interfere in the life and place of other people from different planet.

But all those testimonials by UFO abductees. They even have pictures and video. But since it doesn't fit into your worldview, you refuse to accept it. Typical pigeon tactic.

Quote:

Quote:Who the fuck said anything about consciousness in the testicles?

I beg your pardon!
You are the one who has been talking about testicles for the last few weeks trying to say that sort of everything is possible IF.

I was talking about letting the pink-invisible-dinosaur-robot-hybrid into your testicles. I never said anything about testicles being conscious.

Quote:

Quote:And the scientist are very confident that the mind generates consciousness that it is not part of their discussion. They're focusing on how.

Gee, what a big difference!
I am astounded!

Your astounded that scientist would like to know how things work? You must really consider the scientist as brainless idiots. Did you consider that it might be the other way around?

Quote:

Quote:The mind is as much of an abstraction as motion is. The level of abstraction you want to pose is unjustified.

Pure intellectual extravaganza to say more bullshit.

That statement applies to all your post. I'm gonna steal it, and apply it when I deem appropriate.

Quote:

Quote:Its funny how you think throwing the term ex-atheist will make your argument more convincing. I disagree with other atheist on a whole lot of subjects, so disagreeing with an ex-atheist is even easier.

So tell me.
With how many ex-atheists that did had an NDE did you disagree?

All who claim NDE's are evidence of something outside the brain. Them being an ex-atheist doesn't make a difference.

Quote:

Quote:Plus, where is my computer without any microprocessors?

I guess it would be like a car without an engine but again even if the microprocessor would be inside your computer the computer wouldn't be able to do anything UNTIL you would activate the computer and decide to make it deliver the goods.

So a computer without microprocessors is just a pile of crap until you put the microprocessors in there. Congratulations, you just disproved your top-to-bottom creation. Take some cake, enjoy some wine, you just moved one step closer to a reasoning human being.

Quote:

Quote:Analogies are not evidence. The bullshit experiment you propose was not falsifiable. I'm asking for a falsifiable experiment.

Analogies are used all the time by scientists to prove whether something will work or not.

Scientist only use analogies to explain stuff to laymen. They don't use them when they prove something to there fellow scientist.

Quote:All the medication that people use these days have been experimented on rats.

You know rats are not analogies. They are mammals that have similar biology and biochemistry as humans. That is why drugs are first tested on them before they move to HUMAN TRIALS.

Quote:All the technologies that we got these days come after experiments with what was previously known so without analogies we still would live in caves.

Previous experiments are not analogies. I'm beginning to think you don't know what the word analogy means.

Quote:

Quote:Why aren't you answering the question: if popular, fanatical, opinion dictates truth why aren't you a muslim?

The real truth can not come out somebody ass that is why i don't believe in religions.
Jesus and Mohamed never said that people may end up in hell but that is what some religions teach.
Your question must come out your a.. too surgen doesn't it?

Sorry, but the clerics of Islam devoted their lives to intuitional science and came to their understand of reality. Just because they wrote down what they learned from the intuitional science and spread their knowledge to others doesn't make it less true. So your objection of calling them a religion is ill founded since they are like you, fellow intuitional science practitioners.

Quote:

Quote:Thats funny coming from someone who can't prove his claims. And FYI, protons and neutrons are made out of quarks and gluons. Electrons and positrons are likely fundamental particles i.e. they are not made out of anything.

Even fundamental part are made of something sur but that is something that you will understand at a later stage.

You really need to check the dictionary more often. Look up the word "fundamental."

Quote:

Quote:You're the one that doesn't understand discussions. You say one thing, I say your wrong because of X. You're suppose to reply with that is not valid because of Y, but instead you repeat your claim as if it had never been refuted.

You show me that you ever refute and dismiss any of my thoughts and i will cover you in pure gold.

Your NDE's testimonies with UFO testimonies. Burden of proof shifts. The top to bottom design BS. These are just from this post alone. Where is my gold?

Quote:

Quote:You showed no such thing. You only assert it. Learn the difference.

You can experiment yourself sur.
Just try to insert a knife in your flesh to see whether you feel pain or not.

We already had this discussion. I'm not going to physically hurt myself. Let me shot you in your foot. I won't say which foot since it doesn't matter because you believe pain is only in the brain.

Quote:

Quote:If this universe would be the real reality these guys would be subjects to these universal laws which are to feel pain when a knife penetrate the flesh.

Quote:The universe is a lot more complex than your making it out to be. People killing off their nerve cells, ignoring pain receptors is not evidence for anything supernatural.

Oh that is interesting.
So these guys before to insert knives into their flesh kill all their nerve cells.
Thanks for telling me that mate.
Now i go to see these guys to reprimanding them.
I may even give them a good smack even if i know that they will not feel any pain.

No dumbass. You can kill the nerve endings to a specific region from consistent injury to it. Your brain will also ignore pain receptor messages if they are constantly on.

(March 20, 2015 at 8:43 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Then why the hell is this thread still going on?

I fear it may be all that is keeping Rik alive.

Best news I've had all day.

(March 21, 2015 at 6:03 am)Stimbo Wrote: Best news I've had all day.

Stim, you are heaven sent.
I have been waiting for days and days on end to see you down here in this low caste forum.
Thanks again for coming.
Now i have to beg your pardon but i have a big big problem.
I am sure you can help.
You remember when i was kicked out the philosophy forum?
Well first of all let me say that it was the correct decision as it is and was obvious that my knowledge of philosophy is next to zero.
Now the problem is this.....i have been dreaming day and night that MAYBE one day i may post again in such a forum but first i have to learn many many things about philosophy and here is where i really need your help.
I would like to know WHAT IS THE MEANING OF PHILOSOPHY AND WHO QUALIFY TO BE A REAL PHILOSOPHER.
Without this ABC of philosophy it wouldn't make any sense to try to understand philosophy.
I also rely on all friend that post on the philosophy forum to help.
You all know these simple question so please help little rik.

(March 20, 2015 at 12:09 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 2:46 am)Riketto Wrote: You never know son.
One day they may prove you correct and the thousand of people who had an NDE wrong.
They may even give you a Nobel prize for your scientific knowledge.
In the meantime i rely on what make more sense regardless of the number of witnesses.

You're the one who has the burden of proof not me. You have to show that what these people are experiencing is something outside of their brains. I don't have to do anything to justify my lack of belief.

You really collapsed down in the mental pit sur.
You still don't know what is the difference between physical and abstract and than you pretend that through your physical senses and perception you can understand what is abstract like the consciousness.
Get real sur.

Quote:No, i don't.
I believe in universal laws in which people who live in a certain planet can not interfere in the life and place of other people from different planet.

Quote:But all those testimonials by UFO abductees. They even have pictures and video. But since it doesn't fit into your worldview, you refuse to accept it. Typical pigeon tactic.

I do believe in NDEs because they make sense and i don't believe in UFO abductees because they don't make sense.
Clear and simple so you can keep your pigeons for yourself.

Quote:Your astounded that scientist would like to know how things work? You must really consider the scientist as brainless idiots. Did you consider that it might be the other way around?

Quote:Pure intellectual extravaganza to say more bullshit.

Quote:That statement applies to all your post. I'm gonna steal it, and apply it when I deem appropriate.

Did you know that by imitate somebody like a parrot you may become a parrot in the next life?

Quote:So tell me.
With how many ex-atheists that did had an NDE did you disagree?

Quote:All who claim NDE's are evidence of something outside the brain. Them being an ex-atheist doesn't make a difference.

So you got the evidence that the NDEs are all bullshit?
Good sur, let us see your evidence.

Quote:I guess it would be like a car without an engine but again even if the microprocessor would be inside your computer the computer wouldn't be able to do anything UNTIL you would activate the computer and decide to make it deliver the goods.

Quote:So a computer without microprocessors is just a pile of crap until you put the microprocessors in there. Congratulations, you just disproved your top-to-bottom creation. Take some cake, enjoy some wine, you just moved one step closer to a reasoning human being.

Show me that i disprove what i previously said so we can go ahead.
It seems that is typical of so many of you to allege something about my so called crap but when i ask you to show me where i suppose to have fail nothing is shown.
This is your failing not mine.

Quote:Analogies are used all the time by scientists to prove whether something will work or not.

Quote:Scientist only use analogies to explain stuff to laymen. They don't use them when they prove something to there fellow scientist.

Actually i didn't say that they are used to ........prove something to there (their) fellow scientist....as you say.
You say that not me.
Analogies are all about comparison so in order to invent or improve something the scientists use to make comparisons with what is already invented.
Buy why should i waste my time explaining this to someone who is stuck in the corral of dogma?

Quote:All the medication that people use these days have been experimented on rats.

Quote:You know rats are not analogies. They are mammals that have similar biology and biochemistry as humans. That is why drugs are first tested on them before they move to HUMAN TRIALS.

You are really silly sur.
Analogies or comparisons in the sense that what is ok for rats may be ok for humans.
Forget about your chamomile sur.
Much better a wake up alarm at this stage.

Quote:All the technologies that we got these days come after experiments with what was previously known so without analogies we still would live in caves.

Quote:Previous experiments are not analogies. I'm beginning to think you don't know what the word analogy means.

That is funny sur.
Analogies are comparisons and comparisons meaning is to compare what you want to create with what is already created in order to get some help or to avoid mistakes.

Quote:Sorry, but the clerics of Islam devoted their lives to intuitional science and came to their understand of reality. Just because they wrote down what they learned from the intuitional science and spread their knowledge to others doesn't make it less true. So your objection of calling them a religion is ill founded since they are like you, fellow intuitional science practitioners.

Wrong again sur.
What the followers of Mohammed were doing in the past is totally different from what the cleric are doing these days.
The love has turned into hate.
The spirituality has turned into religious dogmas.
At this stage nobody really knows what the first followers of Mohammed were doing.
Not me not you so forget talking about intuitional science.
All we know is that the first followers were peaceful people.

Quote:Even fundamental part are made of something sur but that is something that you will understand at a later stage.

Quote:You really need to check the dictionary more often. Look up the word "fundamental."

It may be true that the dictionary say one thing and i do believe in something else.
To me the fundamental factors are space, air, light, water and matter and they are all a crudification or a metamorphosis of God thoughts into something less pure so they are all made of something.

Quote:You show me that you ever refute and dismiss any of my thoughts and i will cover you in pure gold.

Quote:Your NDE's testimonies with UFO testimonies. Burden of proof shifts. The top to bottom design BS. These are just from this post alone. Where is my gold?

Garbage sur.
First of all you got to specify in which way you expect a burden of proof.
Do you want something abstract to turn into something physical so you can understand how the system works and the proofs or you want to experience in a conscious way?
Make up your mind sur but in the meantime i suggest you to learn the difference between abstract and physical.

Quote:You can experiment yourself sur.
Just try to insert a knife in your flesh to see whether you feel pain or not.

Quote:We already had this discussion. I'm not going to physically hurt myself. Let me shot you in your foot. I won't say which foot since it doesn't matter because you believe pain is only in the brain.

I already been there and see that so i really don't need to do any experiment to know how the system works.
It is for you surgen in order to understand how the system works.

Quote:Oh that is interesting.
So these guys before to insert knives into their flesh kill all their nerve cells.
Thanks for telling me that mate.
Now i go to see these guys to reprimanding them.
I may even give them a good smack even if i know that they will not feel any pain.

Quote:No dumbass. You can kill the nerve endings to a specific region from consistent injury to it. Your brain will also ignore pain receptor messages if they are constantly on.

Wait, wait wait son.
It is YOU that were talking about killing the nerve cells not me.

(March 21, 2015 at 9:14 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 12:09 pm)Surgenator Wrote: You're the one who has the burden of proof not me. You have to show that what these people are experiencing is something outside of their brains. I don't have to do anything to justify my lack of belief.

You really collapsed down in the mental pit sur.
You still don't know what is the difference between physical and abstract and than you pretend that through your physical senses and perception you can understand what is abstract like the consciousness.
Get real sur.

Where is your proof? I'm still waiting.

Quote:

Quote:But all those testimonials by UFO abductees. They even have pictures and video. But since it doesn't fit into your worldview, you refuse to accept it. Typical pigeon tactic.

I do believe in NDEs because they make sense and i don't believe in UFO abductees because they don't make sense.
Clear and simple so you can keep your pigeons for yourself.

See, there is the admission that you don't care about testinomials unless they support your view. When they don't, then there 'garbage.' Pigeons use dishonest arguments.

Quote:Did you know that by imitate somebody like a parrot you may become a parrot in the next life?

Did you that bullshit is still bullshit no matter how old or new it is?

Quote:

Quote:So tell me.
With how many ex-atheists that did had an NDE did you disagree?

Quote:All who claim NDE's are evidence of something outside the brain. Them being an ex-atheist doesn't make a difference.

So you got the evidence that the NDEs are all bullshit?
Good sur, let us see your evidence.

Shifting the burden of proof again. Or do you want another round of NDE testimonials vs UFO testimonials?

Quote:

Quote:I guess it would be like a car without an engine but again even if the microprocessor would be inside your computer the computer wouldn't be able to do anything UNTIL you would activate the computer and decide to make it deliver the goods.

Quote:So a computer without microprocessors is just a pile of crap until you put the microprocessors in there. Congratulations, you just disproved your top-to-bottom creation. Take some cake, enjoy some wine, you just moved one step closer to a reasoning human being.

Show me that i disprove what i previously said so we can go ahead.
It seems that is typical of so many of you to allege something about my so called crap but when i ask you to show me where i suppose to have fail nothing is shown.
This is your failing not mine.

Since you have so much trouble using the gray matter between your ears, I don't know if you can understand. But I'll give it a shot. "Activating the computer" cannot be done without the microprocessors inside. If the microprocessors are not there, electricity cannot flow through non-existent microprocessors. So you NEED the microprocessors to be there before any activating can occur.

Quote:

Quote:Analogies are used all the time by scientists to prove whether something will work or not.

Quote:Scientist only use analogies to explain stuff to laymen. They don't use them when they prove something to there fellow scientist.

Actually i didn't say that they are used to ........prove something to there (their) fellow scientist....as you say.

Learn to read. No one was talking about past tense.

Quote:You say that not me.
Analogies are all about comparison so in order to invent or improve something the scientists use to make comparisons with what is already invented.
Buy why should i waste my time explaining this to someone who is stuck in the corral of dogma?

You should peruse the dictionary more often. You'll learn the meaning of words like analogy.

Quote:

Quote:All the medication that people use these days have been experimented on rats.

Quote:You know rats are not analogies. They are mammals that have similar biology and biochemistry as humans. That is why drugs are first tested on them before they move to HUMAN TRIALS.

You are really silly sur.
Analogies or comparisons in the sense that what is ok for rats may be ok for humans.
Forget about your chamomile sur.
Much better a wake up alarm at this stage.

The dictionary is your friend, stop ignoring it.

Quote:

Quote:All the technologies that we got these days come after experiments with what was previously known so without analogies we still would live in caves.

Quote:Previous experiments are not analogies. I'm beginning to think you don't know what the word analogy means.

That is funny sur.
Analogies are comparisons and comparisons meaning is to compare what you want to create with what is already created in order to get some help or to avoid mistakes.

Yep, you don't know what analogy means. You are partially correct about comparison, wrong about what needs to be compared to, and wrong about it entails. Scientist use models, not analogies. They may seem the same to a laymen as yourself but they are not. Unlike an analogy, a model imitates what you are describing.

Quote:

Quote:Sorry, but the clerics of Islam devoted their lives to intuitional science and came to their understand of reality. Just because they wrote down what they learned from the intuitional science and spread their knowledge to others doesn't make it less true. So your objection of calling them a religion is ill founded since they are like you, fellow intuitional science practitioners.

Wrong again sur.
What the followers of Mohammed were doing in the past is totally different from what the cleric are doing these days.

Like that matters. They were using your precious intuitional science to come to their understanding of reality. If they are wrong, then intuitional science is worthless on describing reality.

Quote:

Quote:You really need to check the dictionary more often. Look up the word "fundamental."

It may be true that the dictionary say one thing and i do believe in something else.

Nobody cares what you believe words should mean. Look up the word definition.

Quote:

Quote:You show me that you ever refute and dismiss any of my thoughts and i will cover you in pure gold.

Quote:Your NDE's testimonies with UFO testimonies. Burden of proof shifts. The top to bottom design BS. These are just from this post alone. Where is my gold?

Garbage sur.
First of all you got to specify in which way you expect a burden of proof.
Do you want something abstract to turn into something physical so you can understand how the system works and the proofs or you want to experience in a conscious way?
Make up your mind sur but in the meantime i suggest you to learn the difference between abstract and physical.

So you found one thing you disagree with, shifting the burden of proof, and decided to ignore the rest. Whats wrong pigeon? Do you now believe in UFO testimonies, computers can exist without microprocessor? Or did jump ship and now don't believe in NDE testimonies and don't believe computers can exist without microprocessor?

As for the shifting the burden of proof, you should know the difference between "I claim this" with "I don't believe your claim."

Quote:

Quote:We already had this discussion. I'm not going to physically hurt myself. Let me shot you in your foot. I won't say which foot since it doesn't matter because you believe pain is only in the brain.

I already been there and see that so i really don't need to do any experiment to know how the system works.
It is for you surgen in order to understand how the system works.

Oh the experiment was not for you but me. Since you claim to reach this high state of consciousness, then me shooting you in the foot would not result in you feeling any pain. So I want to shoot you in the foot and see your reaction.

Quote:

Quote:No dumbass. You can kill the nerve endings to a specific region from consistent injury to it. Your brain will also ignore pain receptor messages if they are constantly on.

Wait, wait wait son.
It is YOU that were talking about killing the nerve cells not me.

Yes pigeon, I did say you can kill a nerve cell. Just like you can kill any cell. Or did they not cover that at your "nursing" school.

(March 21, 2015 at 10:54 am)Surgenator Wrote:

(March 21, 2015 at 9:14 am)Riketto Wrote: You really collapsed down in the mental pit sur.
You still don't know what is the difference between physical and abstract and than you pretend that through your physical senses and perception you can understand what is abstract like the consciousness.
Get real sur.

Where is your proof? I'm still waiting.

Where is the physical prove that the mind exist?
We know that it exist but how can we touch it, smell it, see it and so on?
So according your demented idea nothing that is not physical can exist because our senses can not grasp hold of them.
You see how demented you are?

Quote:I do believe in NDEs because they make sense and i don't believe in UFO abductees because they don't make sense.
[quote]Clear and simple so you can keep your pigeons for yourself.

By choosing the good and rejecting the bad the humanity could go from the stone age to this age.
But of course not all of the humanity grew up.
Some humans are still floating in the dark age.

Quote:See, there is the admission that you don't care about testinomials unless they support your view. When they don't, then there 'garbage.' Pigeons use dishonest arguments.

See the answer above.

Quote:So you got the evidence that the NDEs are all bullshit?
Good sur, let us see your evidence.

Quote:Shifting the burden of proof again. Or do you want another round of NDE testimonials vs UFO testimonials?

Not at all sur.
If you would have said..........I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE NDEs AS ACCORDING TO ME THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE TRUE instead of saying.......THE NDEs ARE NOT REAL OR THEY ARE BULLSHIT.
There is a lot of differences in these two statement.
In the first you may say that according to you they are not real leaving the possibility that they MAY be real but in your statement you declare that no matter what they are not real.
So in the first case you may well say that the burden of prove is on me but in the next statement you DECLARE something and a declaration always require evidence.
You see how silly you are sur in asking me the burden of prove when it is you that should come forward with such an evidence.
I never declare that NDEs are real.
I always said that i believe that NDEs are real and that make a big big difference.
The same thing apply to God.
I always say that i believe that God exist but i never say that God is real and exist like religious people say.
I believe means that is my understanding that such a thing is real opposite to declare that that thing is real.
It is most of you guys that say that God does not exist and therefore evidence for this statement is needed.
Got it Sur?

Quote:Show me that i disprove what i previously said so we can go ahead.
It seems that is typical of so many of you to allege something about my so called crap but when i ask you to show me where i suppose to have fail nothing is shown.
This is your failing not mine.

Quote:Since you have so much trouble using the gray matter between your ears, I don't know if you can understand. But I'll give it a shot. "Activating the computer" cannot be done without the microprocessors inside. If the microprocessors are not there, electricity cannot flow through non-existent microprocessors. So you NEED the microprocessors to be there before any activating can occur.

You keep on procrastinate the rot.
As i already said it is obvious that the computer can not go without this or that element but it is also true that even if you have all the physical-material elements you still need a mind that turn the computer on and tell the computer to deliver the good.
So who is the pigeon?

Quote:Analogies are all about comparison so in order to invent or improve something the scientists use to make comparisons with what is already invented.
Buy why should i waste my time explaining this to someone who is stuck in the corral of dogma?

Quote:You should peruse the dictionary more often. You'll learn the meaning of words like analogy.

So you know for sure that analogies are only related to theories and not to practice?
In other words you are saying that the scientists that created your computer did not study and take from the older model computer to see how the old can be improved?
Good on you son.
Everyday you invent a new dogma.
Maybe one day they will give you a Nobel price for stupidity.

Quote:That is funny sur.
Analogies are comparisons and comparisons meaning is to compare what you want to create with what is already created in order to get some help or to avoid mistakes.

Quote:Yep, you don't know what analogy means. You are partially correct about comparison, wrong about what needs to be compared to, and wrong about it entails. Scientist use models, not analogies. They may seem the same to a laymen as yourself but they are not. Unlike an analogy, a model imitates what you are describing.

Silly again sur.
Analogies are comparisons.
You take two similar things in order to see how they compare one another.

Quote:Wrong again sur.
What the followers of Mohammed were doing in the past is totally different from what the cleric are doing these days.

Quote:Like that matters. They were using your precious intuitional science to come to their understanding of reality. If they are wrong, then intuitional science is worthless on describing reality.

Silly 3 times now.
You are just declaring that in the past they were practicing intuitional science.
Sorry pal but your declaration need EVIDENCE.
Without evidence your statement is the usual pile o'crap.

Quote:It may be true that the dictionary say one thing and i do believe in something else.

Quote:Nobody cares what you believe words should mean. Look up the word definition.

Dictionaries are like cars or any other physical-material-mental thing.
After a while we need a new car in order to keep up with the changing condition.
Anything in this universe move and change and if you don't keep up with the change you go under that is why i may decide to neglect the old in favor of the new when the time and place call for a change.

Quote:Garbage sur.
First of all you got to specify in which way you expect a burden of proof.
Do you want something abstract to turn into something physical so you can understand how the system works and the proofs or you want to experience in a conscious way?
Make up your mind sur but in the meantime i suggest you to learn the difference between abstract and physical.

Quote:So you found one thing you disagree with, shifting the burden of proof, and decided to ignore the rest. Whats wrong pigeon? Do you now believe in UFO testimonies, computers can exist without microprocessor? Or did jump ship and now don't believe in NDE testimonies and don't believe computers can exist without microprocessor? As for the shifting the burden of proof, you should know the difference between "I claim this" with "I don't believe your claim."

All this bullshit of yours does not answer the question.
I did ask you in which way you expect the burden of prove about something abstract.
In a physical way?
In a abstract way or in which way?
Just answer the question without coming up with new bullshit.

Quote:I already been there and see that so i really don't need to do any experiment to know how the system works.
It is for you surgen in order to understand how the system works.

Quote:Oh the experiment was not for you but me. Since you claim to reach this high state of consciousness, then me shooting you in the foot would not result in you feeling any pain. So I want to shoot you in the foot and see your reaction.

More bullshit of yours sur.
It was all about real reality.
According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain but the guys in the festival that i shown do not feel pain when they insert any metal in their flesh so this according to me means that this universe is not the real reality.
I was therefore asking you how you define the reality.
As simple as this so there is no need for your usual bullshit in answering this simple question.

Rik - with a silent 'p' - please leave me out of your febrile fap fantasies.

Has this thread moved on at all since page one? To me it looks like a lost cause.

(March 22, 2015 at 8:08 am)Riketto Wrote:

(March 21, 2015 at 10:54 am)Surgenator Wrote: Where is your proof? I'm still waiting.

Where is the physical prove that the mind exist?
We know that it exist but how can we touch it, smell it, see it and so on?
So according your demented idea nothing that is not physical can exist because our senses can not grasp hold of them.
You see how demented you are?

Shifting of the burden of proof and argument from ignorance. Your lack of understanding of the physical world is not evidence for a spiritual world.

Quote:

Quote:I do believe in NDEs because they make sense and i don't believe in UFO abductees because they don't make sense.
[quote]Clear and simple so you can keep your pigeons for yourself.

By choosing the good and rejecting the bad the humanity could go from the stone age to this age.
But of course not all of the humanity grew up.
Some humans are still floating in the dark age.

You're not choosing the good and cutting the bad. You're choosing with what you agree with and ignoring what you don't. It's called dishonesty, a pigeon tactic.

Quote:

Quote:So you got the evidence that the NDEs are all bullshit?
Good sur, let us see your evidence.

Quote:Shifting the burden of proof again. Or do you want another round of NDE testimonials vs UFO testimonials?

Not at all sur.
If you would have said..........I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE NDEs AS ACCORDING TO ME THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE TRUE instead of saying.......THE NDEs ARE NOT REAL OR THEY ARE BULLSHIT.
There is a lot of differences in these two statement.

There is only one reason you care about, does it agree to with your already concluded reality or not.

Quote:So in the first case you may well say that the burden of prove is on me but in the next statement you DECLARE something and a declaration always require evidence.

You mean how I point out that testimonials are not evidence and give the UFO's as an example. So the testimonials coming from NDE's, magic crystals, or UFOs are all the same, they are NOT EVIDENCE.

Quote:I never declare that NDEs are real.
I always said that i believe that NDEs are real and that make a big big difference.

So stop referring to NDE's when I ask for evidence. Where is your evidence?

Quote:The same thing apply to God.
I always say that i believe that God exist but i never say that God is real and exist like religious people say.

And like the religious people you despise, you don't show any evidence for your belief. So I reply that your belief is unjustified.

Quote:

Quote:Show me that i disprove what i previously said so we can go ahead.
It seems that is typical of so many of you to allege something about my so called crap but when i ask you to show me where i suppose to have fail nothing is shown.
This is your failing not mine.

Quote:Since you have so much trouble using the gray matter between your ears, I don't know if you can understand. But I'll give it a shot. "Activating the computer" cannot be done without the microprocessors inside. If the microprocessors are not there, electricity cannot flow through non-existent microprocessors. So you NEED the microprocessors to be there before any activating can occur.

You keep on procrastinate the rot.
As i already said it is obvious that the computer can not go without this or that element but it is also true that even if you have all the physical-material elements you still need a mind that turn the computer on and tell the computer to deliver the good.
So who is the pigeon?

You admit that computers cannot exist without microprocessors. Your only objection is that tools (computers are tools) are used by someone. Well duh. However, you still cannot build a tool from the top-down, you cannot build a house from the top-down. What can you build from the top down? Where is your evidence for it.

Quote:

Quote:Analogies are all about comparison so in order to invent or improve something the scientists use to make comparisons with what is already invented.
Buy why should i waste my time explaining this to someone who is stuck in the corral of dogma?

Quote:You should peruse the dictionary more often. You'll learn the meaning of words like analogy.

So you know for sure that analogies are only related to theories and not to practice?

Actually, neither

Quote:

Quote:That is funny sur.
Analogies are comparisons and comparisons meaning is to compare what you want to create with what is already created in order to get some help or to avoid mistakes.

Quote:Yep, you don't know what analogy means. You are partially correct about comparison, wrong about what needs to be compared to, and wrong about it entails. Scientist use models, not analogies. They may seem the same to a laymen as yourself but they are not. Unlike an analogy, a model imitates what you are describing.

Silly again sur.
Analogies are comparisons.
You take two similar things in order to see how they compare one another.

Silly pigeon, your missing the imitation part which is very important.

Quote:

Quote:Like that matters. They were using your precious intuitional science to come to their understanding of reality. If they are wrong, then intuitional science is worthless on describing reality.

Silly 3 times now.
You are just declaring that in the past they were practicing intuitional science.
Sorry pal but your declaration need EVIDENCE.
Without evidence your statement is the usual pile o'crap.

They definitely weren't practicing physical science. How would you know that they didn't practice intuitional science? Because they didn't come to the same conclusions as you? Please, elaborate on more on your dishonesty.

Quote:

Quote:Nobody cares what you believe words should mean. Look up the word definition.

Dictionaries are like cars or any other physical-material-mental thing.

No they are not like cars. They tell people the meaning of words society has agreed upon. If you want to communicate within society, you have to use the words correctly. Otherwise, you only sound like an idiot.

Quote:

Quote:So you found one thing you disagree with, shifting the burden of proof, and decided to ignore the rest. Whats wrong pigeon? Do you now believe in UFO testimonies, computers can exist without microprocessor? Or did jump ship and now don't believe in NDE testimonies and don't believe computers can exist without microprocessor? As for the shifting the burden of proof, you should know the difference between "I claim this" with "I don't believe your claim."

All this bullshit of yours does not answer the question.
I did ask you in which way you expect the burden of prove about something abstract.
In a physical way?
In a abstract way or in which way?

The burden of proof is always on the person making a claim. You make lots of claims and provide terrible if any justification for them. Plus, your follow up questions don't make any sense. Most likely, you assumed something thinking I assumed the same thing.

Quote:

Quote:Oh the experiment was not for you but me. Since you claim to reach this high state of consciousness, then me shooting you in the foot would not result in you feeling any pain. So I want to shoot you in the foot and see your reaction.

It was all about real reality.
According to the laws of this universe if you insert a knife into your flesh you are bound to feel pain but the guys in the festival that i shown do not feel pain when they insert any metal in their flesh so this according to me means that this universe is not the real reality.

I already gave two examples where this statement of your is false. Please stop repeating it. You're becoming boring.