In the UK, the Left wing is the Labour party. I've always leaned that way, but recently I am of the opinion that they have failed to address Islam. Any criticism of Islam is deemed ''Islamophobic'' and ''racist'': not only does this stifle free-speech but it has created a culture of fear, nobody can criticize Islam without being labelled a bigot.

Newspaper like The Guardian pander to Islam and preach that there is nothing wrong with it, but it's far from true. As an Atheist, I've often sided with the Left because they seem less religious but in regards to Islam, I feel let-down. Whenever I criticize it, I'm labelled a right-wing nut job.

Anyone else feel this way?

"Address Islam" sounds like "The Jewish Problem"

I agree that Islam as an idea needs to be put under scrutiny , but human beings have rights regardless of what religion they belong to. No Muslims should not be demanding to be free from criticism.

(April 4, 2015 at 3:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: "Address Islam" sounds like "The Jewish Problem"

I agree that Islam as an idea needs to be put under scrutiny , but human beings have rights regardless of what religion they belong to. No Muslims should not be demanding to be free from criticism.

Exactly.

Quite a lot depends on both the nature and scope of the criticism we are discussing.  If, for example, one blames all Muslims for the practices of a few Muslims, that is like blaming all Christians, for the practices of a few Christians, or all members of some group, for the practices of a few members of the group.  Islam, like Christianity, is not a monolithic religion in which everyone agrees about everything.  Islam, like Christianity, is made up of a wide range of different sects, often extremely opposed to each other.  So blaming all of them for the beliefs and practices of one sect is unjust and unreasonable, and likely due to being racist and Islamophobic.  Or just having shit for brains.

Quite a lot of the criticisms of Islam that one encounters are people expressing racist and Islamophobic ideas.  "Quite a lot," of course, does not mean all.  But with some people, it seems to be that all of their criticisms are racist and Islamophobic.


As for you in particular, you would have to tell us what your criticisms are, in order for us to know if you are racist and Islamophobic or not.


One can say that Islam is not supported by the evidence, just like all other religions, such as Christianity.  That can be said of all of Islam, but one cannot accurately say that all of Islam supports destroying archaeological artifacts.  Someone saying the second of these is likely racist or Islamophobic or has shit for brains (or all three).

There are quite a few who lump all Muslims together, and quite a few Muslims who take any criticism as bigotry. Both extremes need to move to the middle if real issues are going to be addressed.

(April 4, 2015 at 4:29 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Quite a lot depends on both the nature and scope of the criticism we are discussing.  If, for example, one blames all Muslims for the practices of a few Muslims, that is like blaming all Christians, for the practices of a few Christians, or all members of some group, for the practices of a few members of the group.  Islam, like Christianity, is not a monolithic religion in which everyone agrees about everything.  Islam, like Christianity, is made up of a wide range of different sects, often extremely opposed to each other.  So blaming all of them for the beliefs and practices of one sect is unjust and unreasonable, and likely due to being racist and Islamophobic.  Or just having shit for brains.

Quite a lot of the criticisms of Islam that one encounters are people expressing racist and Islamophobic ideas.  "Quite a lot," of course, does not mean all.  But with some people, it seems to be that all of their criticisms are racist and Islamophobic.


As for you in particular, you would have to tell us what your criticisms are, in order for us to know if you are racist and Islamophobic or not.


One can say that Islam is not supported by the evidence, just like all other religions, such as Christianity.  That can be said of all of Islam, but one cannot accurately say that all of Islam supports destroying archaeological artifacts.  Someone saying the second of these is likely racist or Islamophobic or has shit for brains (or all three).

Hope you were not accusing anyone here of saying criticism of Islam is racist or "Islamophobic".


Of course attack the IDEA of any religion INCLUDING Islam, no one is saying give them a taboo. I am saying in the west we do have freedom and we don't presume guilt for any individual in the west REGARDLESS of religion. Humans still have rights. 

I meant the ideology. Many who try to criticize Islam are labeled bigots

The trick there is to criticize all religions.

But right now, the muslims are the worst of the lot.

(April 4, 2015 at 4:29 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Quite a lot depends on both the nature and scope of the criticism we are discussing.  If, for example, one blames all Muslims for the practices of a few Muslims, that is like blaming all Christians, for the practices of a few Christians, or all members of some group, for the practices of a few members of the group.  Islam, like Christianity, is not a monolithic religion in which everyone agrees about everything.  Islam, like Christianity, is made up of a wide range of different sects, often extremely opposed to each other.  So blaming all of them for the beliefs and practices of one sect is unjust and unreasonable, and likely due to being racist and Islamophobic.  Or just having shit for brains.

Quite a lot of the criticisms of Islam that one encounters are people expressing racist and Islamophobic ideas.  "Quite a lot," of course, does not mean all.  But with some people, it seems to be that all of their criticisms are racist and Islamophobic.


As for you in particular, you would have to tell us what your criticisms are, in order for us to know if you are racist and Islamophobic or not.


One can say that Islam is not supported by the evidence, just like all other religions, such as Christianity.  That can be said of all of Islam, but one cannot accurately say that all of Islam supports destroying archaeological artifacts.  Someone saying the second of these is likely racist or Islamophobic or has shit for brains (or all three).

Racism by definition is discrimination on the basis of race/colour of skin. Criticism of Islam has never been racist and it never will. Me saying that Islam, like Christianity is a barbaric, savage and intolerant death cult is not racist. It's my opinion on an ideology.

Is there bigotry towards Muslims as people? Yes. That exists. It's not racist, but it's vile. For example, if I said to ''you dirty Muslims'' --- that would be insulting, rude and vile. It could for example, offend Pakistani Muslims, but it would not directly be offending Pakistani Christians. It would offend white Muslims, Black Muslims, Olive-Skinned Muslims, etc. 

What would be racist is saying ''you Pakistanki's are stupid and inferior'' --- this is a vile attack on Pakistani's regardless of religion.

My opinion of Islam falls in line with Dawkins/Hitchens/Hirsi Ali, it's a vile, barbaric and intolerant ideology which poses a great threat to the world. 

(April 4, 2015 at 5:25 pm)TheMessiah Wrote: I meant the ideology. Many who try to criticize Islam are labeled bigots

Yes and they are idiots.