Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
(May 2, 2015 at 9:27 am)Hatshepsut Wrote: I don't subscribe to human-controlled religion anymore. Unfortunately, atheism is really another human-controlled belief system, or should I say family of allied belief systems for accuracy, so we never entirely escape. Social control within atheism is extremely lax, however: perhaps just a scolding from Bill Maher on TV.
If not believing in a god or gods is a belief system, so is not believing in unicorns. That's just silly. Atheism is a single response to a single question. There's no system. And as such there are no atheist police out there to turn you in if you do it wrong.
Quote:As an atheist you'll be expected to go full bore and develop a snide, snarky attitude toward your former religion and the ridiculous stories in its holy texts.
Hardly, though I must admit it can be fun.
Quote:As an atheist you'll be expected to go full bore and develop a snide, snarky attitude toward your former religion and the ridiculous stories in its holy texts. Learn science well, particularly the big bang cosmology and Darwinian evolution. But never "believe" in these latter items; the slogan of atheism is We Make No Claims. Instead, merely assert their truth is established by the Self-Correcting Scientific Method. Nothing less will do on this site, which after all carries the venerable image of a Lithium atom on its masthead. I like atheism as a counterweight to religious authority, though. The Hierarchy gets so Stuffy it needs its balloon popped from time to time. Visit the RationalWiki for more details.
Oh please. Many people are deconverted from religion by learning about science. Not surprisingly an interest in science is shared by many on this site. So is a skeptical outlook. But it's hardly required. And as is often pointed out to drop-in idiots who think that if science can't explain everything about everything god must exist, there were atheists long before Newton. Atheism isn't really science dependent, it's just often a fellow traveler.
But snark all you like.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
Well, if Jesus is a god (which I think is true), then he's pretty tough, and unlikely to get so uptight over denial & doubt issues as Christians fear he is. If the Holy Ghost is drawing you nearer to God, then good. I don't put too much stock in "feeling" things; I don't usually feel a lot of excitement in connection with my devotions. In fact, I think Christianity as religion has always been in a distorted state, never presenting an honest theology to followers. It's been manipulated for fun, politics, and profit from the day after the angel rolled back the stone capping Jesus' tomb.
Which is why I don't subscribe to human-controlled religion anymore. Unfortunately, atheism is really another human-controlled belief system, or should I say family of allied belief systems for accuracy, so we never entirely escape. Social control within atheism is extremely lax, however: perhaps just a scolding from Bill Maher on TV.
As an atheist you'll be expected to go full bore and develop a snide, snarky attitude toward your former religion and the ridiculous stories in its holy texts. Learn science well, particularly the big bang cosmology and Darwinian evolution. But never "believe" in these latter items; the slogan of atheism is We Make No Claims. Instead, merely assert their truth is established by the Self-Correcting Scientific Method. Nothing less will do on this site, which after all carries the venerable image of a Lithium atom on its masthead. I like atheism as a counterweight to religious authority, though. The Hierarchy gets so Stuffy it needs its balloon popped from time to time. Visit the RationalWiki for more details.
Jokes aside, best wishes to you. I don't know how to resolve your issue, that is, how you "know" that Jesus is not a god, particularly if you "knew" this in the past but don't "know" it now. I don't fully know what it means to "know" something, or how this differs from "believing" or "feeling." Of course I don't believe either of the two creation narratives in Genesis or the Noah Ark story faithfully represent any event in the natural world, if modern standards of historiography and science are to be applied to them. There's no geologic evidence for a global flood in recent time, no reason to think our planet condensed in six days, or that its date of formation is less than 4 or 5 billion years past. Oddly, these silly issues hijack all the airtime in theist-atheist contretemps. In the end, whether Jesus is a god doesn't depend on what we think; it's either "true" or it's not.
I like some Christian music. I like Martin Luther's "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" and Bach's St. John Passion best. I doubt you're in danger of going insane within the next 24 hours or so. Again, best of luck fall into your hat!
Robvalue, you are right. I am well aware of the logical fallacies, otherwise, I wouldn't be here, but in a church. I am not saying that what I am going through is related to any God. I am saying that it in Christianity it looks that way. However, given that I THINK like an atheist (I'd say) I know that I'd have no evidence that my interpretation of what I'm experiencing is the correct one.
I would consider myself an atheist. Maybe I should surround myself with more atheist material and lay off the music for a while. I mean, I know I can't become a Christian because of all the logical fallacies, unsound arguments, contradictions, lack of evidence and all that, so there is no alternative for me other than to accept that so far there has been no evidence whatsoever that God is real. Even if Jesus came (back) to Earth, he'd have a lot of explaining to do.
Jörmungandr Wrote:When you are lost and need to find your way, which should you turn to: reason, intuition, or feelings?
Nothing wrong with enjoying religious art, but do you really think it's something more?
Honestly, right now, I'd go for reason. I do not think that there is something more. I can't even know if there is something more. Even if there was a creator or more creators - as in any possible creators, not Deities-, I don't see how that should change one's view on life. For example, if we believed this world was just a simulation, it wouldn't change anything, because the creator(s) is(/are) clearly not intervening with the universe they created. After all, if you create an awesome program, you want to see what it's capable of and not change it all the time to suit your needs.
Jericho Wrote:Do you really believe in God, or do you just want to? Is it possible that what you're 'feelings' are just your subconscious trying to comfort you?
That is my take on it too. I want to believe it and my subconscious is trying to comfort me.
LastPoet Wrote:Dude, the morals you have in your heart as you say, were simply usurped by christianity. That's all there is. They profit in human feelings to drive their money making schemes, taking credit over something that is natural to our species.
May 2, 2015 at 1:57 pm (This post was last modified: May 2, 2015 at 1:59 pm by robvalue.)
I share the same view, I don't care whether a God exists or not. If I knew one did, it wouldn't affect how I live my life. If it was the Christian one, I'd be hating a real entity rather than a fictional one, and wondering where the hell he is supposed to be at. Because he ain't here
There's nothing wrong with enjoying aspects of Christianity, but if it's freaking you out, then yeah maybe steering clear of it for a while may be best. Have you checked out the atheist discussion/humour on YouTube? I have links to many good ones on my site. They can help you laugh at religion, and hear more perspectives.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Kent Hovind and Christian music? I feel for you, I really do.
Music was such an important part of my life before I became a believer. My dad was a professional musician when I was growing up and briefly I was as well. When I first became a believer I had the nonsensical notion that I should give all of that up and I stopped listening to music. But then I would hear someone play some old Pink Floyd stuff in the neighborhood and I would get such a feeling of emptiness. I started listening to smooth Jazz because I assumed it was safe and I got used to that. It gave me comfort, it relaxed me. Then I realized that there was nothing wrong with the music I had loved before so I started listening to that again. Classic rock for the most part. And it just annoyed me. 40 - 60 year old millionaires with teen aged angst seemed really stupid to me.
Music is spiritual and it has a subtle but powerful influence over people. But it is kind of all about what you are used to. I can't stand Christian music, even when it comes in the disguise of tattooed biker surfer christian teen aged angst. Nobody buys albums anymore anyway. Nowadays I can listen to anything, including Christian artists like Dave Mustaine of Megadeth or Alice Cooper as well as any other artists. Marilyn Manson, Bad Religion etc.
Pay attention to the Bible and maybe find someone to teach you it's true meaning without the religiosity and you are far less likely to be confused and uncertain and lacking confidence, no matter if you conclude by deciding an atheist or theist position.
(May 2, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Theoretical Skeptic Wrote: Pay attention to the Bible and maybe find someone to teach you it's true meaning without the religiosity and you are far less likely to be confused and uncertain and lacking confidence, no matter if you conclude by deciding an atheist or theist position.
OP,
If you want to cement the thinking atheist part, by all means read the Bible, read all of it. Don't skip Numbers, Deuteronomy, or the endless Prophets. Read Kings and Chronicles in tandem and compare. Read the Gospels that way too. Make sure you check out the OT verses sited in the Gospels. Compare what Paul has to say about himself what's said of him in Acts. It's the best recipe for making an atheist I know of.
But I doubt it will help much with what you are feeling one way or the other.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
![[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/zf86M5L7/extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg)
![[Image: atheists.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=imgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fatheists.png)
