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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 14, 2015 at 8:23 pm
Minimalist? More like the 40's.... 
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 14, 2015 at 8:37 pm
It's far too complicated for a true believer to understand.
Religion always seemed silly. When I was 11 I determined that the people who ran the church were shitheads. When I was 13 I grabbed my dad's offer to sleep in on Sunday so I didn't have to listen to that silly bullshit. Which, btw, Richard Jeni pretty much nailed....
For roughly the next 20 years religion was simply an irrelevancy. Didn't give a fuck about any of it. Really did not start paying attention until I realized that these jesus fucks were trying to pour a load of superstitious crap into our laws and schools. THAT's when I began to identify as an atheist....even though for all intents and purposes I had been one for a long time.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 14, 2015 at 9:40 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2015 at 9:42 pm by Randy Carson.)
(May 14, 2015 at 8:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It's far too complicated for a true believer to understand.
Religion always seemed silly. When I was 11 I determined that the people who ran the church were shitheads. When I was 13 I grabbed my dad's offer to sleep in on Sunday so I didn't have to listen to that silly bullshit. Which, btw, Richard Jeni pretty much nailed....
For roughly the next 20 years religion was simply an irrelevancy. Didn't give a fuck about any of it. Really did not start paying attention until I realized that these jesus fucks were trying to pour a load of superstitious crap into our laws and schools. THAT's when I began to identify as an atheist....even though for all intents and purposes I had been one for a long time.
Of course. I could not possibly understand. Except that I went through a similar experience before coming back.
Seriously, do you honestly think you are the only person who has been through what you've described?
Get a grip, dude. You're no different than every other Catholic teenager who wasn't paying attention during mass. Except that you've never bothered to pay attention since, either.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 14, 2015 at 10:51 pm
So why do you support child raping priests?
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 15, 2015 at 1:36 am
Ref. Post #115: The Bible didn't exist before the English committee wrote the fairy tale into a single book around the year 700 AD as a gift to Pope Gregory II. Books didn't exist before then. The Bible didn't get into its current format until the later Middle Ages, which is when a lot of the characters were given new names.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 15, 2015 at 2:36 am
(May 14, 2015 at 10:33 am)Randy Carson Wrote: I'll just source a bit from the following website:
Septuagint - What is It?
Septuagint (sometimes abbreviated LXX) is the name given to the Greek translation of the Jewish Scriptures. The Septuagint has its origin in Alexandria, Egypt and was translated between 300-200 BC. Widely used among Hellenistic Jews, this Greek translation was produced because many Jews spread throughout the empire were beginning to lose their Hebrew language. The process of translating the Hebrew to Greek also gave many non-Jews a glimpse into Judaism. According to an ancient document called the Letter of Aristeas, it is believed that 70 to 72 Jewish scholars were commissioned during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus to carry out the task of translation. The term “Septuagint” means seventy in Latin, and the text is so named to the credit of these 70 scholars.
http://www.septuagint.net/
The only way to indent further is using List.
And the fact that you've quoted a source citing the "Letter of Aristeas" proves you do not know the history nor the origins of the LXX. If it was in such widespread use as you claim then why were there all these new Greek translations of the OT in the second century AD? And you can't date the LXX to before the Hexapla. It's true that the textual linage for the Pentateuch dates to before the first century AD; however all available evidence shows that it was systematically altered - especially by Origen who made innumerable changes to the text that then appeared in the Fifth Column of the Hexapla. Seeing as the LXX is the fifth column of the Hexapla the only thing that could have existed at the time of Jesus was a proto-lxx. And there's not a shred of credible evidence that suggests that this proto-lxx contained all 66 books of the Old Testament.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 16, 2015 at 6:08 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2015 at 6:12 pm by Randy Carson.)
(May 14, 2015 at 10:51 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So why do you support child raping priests?
In the "Ask a Catholic" thread, I have explicitly stated that I support prosecution of priests who commit crimes such as this. You know this because you are participating in that thread.
Now, with that in mind, could you help me with a question about the forum rules? Specifically,
- No Trolling
Trolling is where a person makes a deliberately provocative posting with the aim of inciting an angry response, and is not allowed. As discussions can at times get heated, not all provocative posts will get classed as trolling. However, if a member is found to be making multiple such posts, or appear to only be using the forum to provoke people, they will be in violation of this rule.
Would you say that your post does or does not meet the standard of trolling as defined by the forum administrators? Or are you merely being provocative?
Thanks.
(May 15, 2015 at 1:36 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Ref. Post #115: The Bible didn't exist before the English committee wrote the fairy tale into a single book around the year 700 AD as a gift to Pope Gregory II. Books didn't exist before then. The Bible didn't get into its current format until the later Middle Ages, which is when a lot of the characters were given new names.
Well, that is one version of the story. I heard it this way:
The Canon and the Councils
Council of Rome (382 A.D.)
Convoked by Pope Damasus, this council produced the Roman Code. The Roman Code identified a list of scriptural books identical to the Council of Trent's formally defined canon. Pope Damasus I approved the work of the first Council of Constantinople, accepting St. Athanasius’ list as divinely inspired, and indicated that if any bishop used a list of books inconsistent with the Roman canon he would need a convincing explanation.
Council of Hippo (393 A.D.)
This council reiterated the list of books established by the Council of Rome.
First Council of Carthage (397 A.D.)
This council reiterated the list of books established by the Council of Rome and also affirmed the Decree of Damasus issued in 382 A.D.. Carthage, unlike Hippo, sent its decisions to Rome for ratification.
Pope Innocent I (405 A.D.)
In a letter to Exsuperius, the Bishop of Toulouse, Pope Innocent listed the same books established by the Council of Rome.
Pope Boniface (ca. 420 A.D.)
Pope St. Boniface I (418-422) ratified the decision of the first Council of Carthage and declared the canon settled for the Western Patriarchate. Boniface also sent the decision to the Eastern patriarchs in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. At that point, the Catholic Canon of Sacred Scripture was informally accepted worldwide.
Second Council of Carthage (419 A.D.)
This council reiterated the list of books established by the Council of Rome.
Second Council of Nicaea (787 A.D.)
This council formally ratified the African Code which contained the same list of books that Trent would name “canonical”.
Council of Florence (1441 A.D.)
This council defined a list of inspired books identical to those defined by the African Code and the Second Council of Nicaea.
Council of Trent (1546 A.D.)
On April 8, 1546, this council produced a decree, Sacrosancta, which was the first, formal canonical definition of Old and New Testament scripture. This was the third formal affirmation of the list by an ecumenical council and at least the eighth overall.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 16, 2015 at 6:17 pm
(May 16, 2015 at 6:08 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (May 14, 2015 at 10:51 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So why do you support child raping priests?
In the "Ask a Catholic" thread, I have explicitly stated that I support prosecution of priests who commit crimes such as this. You know this because you are participating in that thread.
Now, with that in mind, could you help me with a question about the forum rules? Specifically,
- No Trolling
Trolling is where a person makes a deliberately provocative posting with the aim of inciting an angry response, and is not allowed. As discussions can at times get heated, not all provocative posts will get classed as trolling. However, if a member is found to be making multiple such posts, or appear to only be using the forum to provoke people, they will be in violation of this rule.
1. The Vatican has always moved around priests that raped children and covered it up and its always going to be a problem even with the new pope.
More people just need to say fuck it, and keep their kids home because religion is more of a adult thing than for a child. And even still never let your children
get even close to the priest because there is always going to be that issue, always there is no stopping it so why bother going to church when you have bible stay home
sunday get in your birthday suit and read it.
2. Minimalist has been here longer than you. We have all read the rules before signing up.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 16, 2015 at 6:18 pm
(May 15, 2015 at 2:36 am)Aractus Wrote: (May 14, 2015 at 10:33 am)Randy Carson Wrote: I'll just source a bit from the following website:
Septuagint - What is It?
Septuagint (sometimes abbreviated LXX) is the name given to the Greek translation of the Jewish Scriptures. The Septuagint has its origin in Alexandria, Egypt and was translated between 300-200 BC. Widely used among Hellenistic Jews, this Greek translation was produced because many Jews spread throughout the empire were beginning to lose their Hebrew language. The process of translating the Hebrew to Greek also gave many non-Jews a glimpse into Judaism. According to an ancient document called the Letter of Aristeas, it is believed that 70 to 72 Jewish scholars were commissioned during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus to carry out the task of translation. The term “Septuagint” means seventy in Latin, and the text is so named to the credit of these 70 scholars.
http://www.septuagint.net/
The only way to indent further is using List.
And the fact that you've quoted a source citing the "Letter of Aristeas" proves you do not know the history nor the origins of the LXX. If it was in such widespread use as you claim then why were there all these new Greek translations of the OT in the second century AD? And you can't date the LXX to before the Hexapla. It's true that the textual linage for the Pentateuch dates to before the first century AD; however all available evidence shows that it was systematically altered - especially by Origen who made innumerable changes to the text that then appeared in the Fifth Column of the Hexapla. Seeing as the LXX is the fifth column of the Hexapla the only thing that could have existed at the time of Jesus was a proto-lxx. And there's not a shred of credible evidence that suggests that this proto-lxx contained all 66 books of the Old Testament.
First, there are 73 books in the entire Bible (66 if you're talking to a Protestant). 27 are NT books.
Second, would you say that Jesus (and the authors of the NT) did or did not quote from the Septuagint?
Third, since you sound like someone who's done a bit of research into this, did you read the articles that I referenced previously? They acknowledge that the Letter of Aristeas is not credible, but they go on to support the BC dating of the Septuagint.
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RE: The Question of the Greek New Testament
May 19, 2015 at 3:19 am
(May 16, 2015 at 6:08 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (May 14, 2015 at 10:51 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So why do you support child raping priests?
In the "Ask a Catholic" thread, I have explicitly stated that I support prosecution of priests who commit crimes such as this. You know this because you are participating in that thread.
Now, with that in mind, could you help me with a question about the forum rules? Specifically,
- No Trolling
Trolling is where a person makes a deliberately provocative posting with the aim of inciting an angry response, and is not allowed. As discussions can at times get heated, not all provocative posts will get classed as trolling. However, if a member is found to be making multiple such posts, or appear to only be using the forum to provoke people, they will be in violation of this rule.
Would you say that your post does or does not meet the standard of trolling as defined by the forum administrators? Or are you merely being provocative?
Thanks.
(May 15, 2015 at 1:36 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Ref. Post #115: The Bible didn't exist before the English committee wrote the fairy tale into a single book around the year 700 AD as a gift to Pope Gregory II. Books didn't exist before then. The Bible didn't get into its current format until the later Middle Ages, which is when a lot of the characters were given new names.
Well, that is one version of the story. I heard it this way:
The Canon and the Councils
Council of Rome (382 A.D.)
Convoked by Pope Damasus, this council produced the Roman Code. The Roman Code identified a list of scriptural books identical to the Council of Trent's formally defined canon. Pope Damasus I approved the work of the first Council of Constantinople, accepting St. Athanasius’ list as divinely inspired, and indicated that if any bishop used a list of books inconsistent with the Roman canon he would need a convincing explanation.
Council of Hippo (393 A.D.)
This council reiterated the list of books established by the Council of Rome.
First Council of Carthage (397 A.D.)
This council reiterated the list of books established by the Council of Rome and also affirmed the Decree of Damasus issued in 382 A.D.. Carthage, unlike Hippo, sent its decisions to Rome for ratification.
Pope Innocent I (405 A.D.)
In a letter to Exsuperius, the Bishop of Toulouse, Pope Innocent listed the same books established by the Council of Rome.
Pope Boniface (ca. 420 A.D.)
Pope St. Boniface I (418-422) ratified the decision of the first Council of Carthage and declared the canon settled for the Western Patriarchate. Boniface also sent the decision to the Eastern patriarchs in Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. At that point, the Catholic Canon of Sacred Scripture was informally accepted worldwide.
Second Council of Carthage (419 A.D.)
This council reiterated the list of books established by the Council of Rome.
Second Council of Nicaea (787 A.D.)
This council formally ratified the African Code which contained the same list of books that Trent would name “canonical”.
Council of Florence (1441 A.D.)
This council defined a list of inspired books identical to those defined by the African Code and the Second Council of Nicaea.
Council of Trent (1546 A.D.)
On April 8, 1546, this council produced a decree, Sacrosancta, which was the first, formal canonical definition of Old and New Testament scripture. This was the third formal affirmation of the list by an ecumenical council and at least the eighth overall.
Actual books didn't exist until the English made the first ones when they wrote the first complete Bible around 600 AD. Before that time people just had a lot of scrolls.
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