Cath, when you ask us "do we believe:"

What we hear is:
Is there enough recorded evidence to give "said" person the benefit of the doubt.

All our beliefs come from recorded scientific and historical documentation.
If you want our "hunches", ask us semi wooey questions like:

Do you believe in bigfoot, yeti, lockness, etc...

Then you may get some "juicy" answers! (But I still doubt it)

(July 16, 2015 at 7:00 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Cath, when you ask us "do we believe:"

What we hear is:
Is there enough recorded evidence to give "said" person the benefit of the doubt.

All our beliefs come from recorded scientific and historical documentation.
If you want our "hunches", ask us semi wooey questions like:

Do you believe in bigfoot, yeti, lockness, etc...

Then you may get some "juicy" answers! (But I still doubt it)

The answers on the poll should make it a little more clear.

I think so

&

I don't think so

Christianity is little more than a patchwork quilt of various pagan tribal beliefs and mythologies that were assimilated by a larger conquering force to ease the transition for the (often forcibly) converted people. It was used as a powerful political tool to quieten, subjugate and trample the masses for generations. It was, and still in some ways remains an excellent way of controlling people, having been crafted for centuries to be a near-perfect mix of fear, possibility for salvation, guilt-tripping and wish-fulfillment.
C_L, when you dig deep into the mythology that you claim holds ultimate truth and is divinely inspired, you will inevitably discover the layers upon layers of fabrication and exaggeration that have gradually accumalated over the years to form the modern (and really quite recent) version of christianity that exists today, in the tiny little slice of time we call the present day, where it just happens to reign as the largest religion in the world. And many elements of christianity itself are still furiously disagreed upon by the some 40,000 denominations that exist across the world.

Every logical fallacy that you discover, every inconsistency, every plainly-spoken piece of outright bullshit, every scientific and logical impossibility that you come across will make you come to an intellectual crossroads. Naturally, being as strong of faith as you supposedly are, you will perform all manner of mental gymnastics to resolve or ignore every problem you encounter. But still, the wieght of bullshit is there round every corner, and I think in some deep vault within your mind you are aware of it, but don't want to admit or even acknowledge it.

Should you choose to objectively, without emotion or bias, examine your own mythology and compare it to others, you may come to realise why athiests think of christianity as just another cult that got lucky. And you may simply choose to ignore it as the work of the Devil as so many have done before you. But reality is the same whether you ignore it or not.

(July 16, 2015 at 11:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thanks for everyone's responses!

Do you guys believe that Mohammad, Cleopatra, Aristotle were real people?

Aristotle?  Absolutely.  He was a prolific writer who greatly influenced other philosophers.  We only have one real biography and that's written several hundred years later Diogenes Laertius in his work Lives of Eminent Philosophers 225-250 AD.  But Laetius references the contemparary works he relied on.

Cleopatra?  Which one?  There are a bunch, all well sourced in Egypt.  The one I think you mean who gets tangled up with Caesar and Anthony is well sourced in Rome and Egypt.  No doubt she existed. 

Mohammad?  He's even harder to source than Jesus.  Probably was a real person, but there's not much to go on.

(July 16, 2015 at 6:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How about Buddha? Do ya'll believe he was a real person?

Even harder than Mohammad.  When you see someone's birth listed as between 800 and 1000 BC you gotta wonder.

(July 16, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(July 16, 2015 at 11:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thanks for everyone's responses!

Do you guys believe that Mohammad, Cleopatra, Aristotle were real people?

Aristotle?  Absolutely.  He was a prolific writer who greatly influenced other philosophers.  We only have one real biography and that's written several hundred years later Diogenes Laertius in his work Lives of Eminent Philosophers 225-250 AD.  But Laetius references the contemparary works he relied on.

Cleopatra?  Which one?  There are a bunch, all well sourced in Egypt.  The one I think you mean who gets tangled up with Caesar and Anthony is well sourced in Rome and Egypt.  No doubt she existed. 

Mohammad?  He's even harder to source than Jesus.  Probably was a real person, but there's not much to go on.

Thanks!

This Cleopatra: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra (you were correct)

(July 15, 2015 at 8:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(July 15, 2015 at 6:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Worrrrrrd to the heathens!!  

So, do you think Jesus was a real person?

Mostly likely there was a rabbi or prophet named Jesus about 2000ish years ago.

(July 15, 2015 at 6:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm simply asking if you think there was a man 2000ish years ago named Jesus who brought forth these new "ideas" that we now call Christianity.

That's a slightly different question.  There would be no Christianity if he'd never preached.  But, I don't think Christianity has much to do with what he taught.  I'm not sure he thought he was divine.

The Divinity of Jesus Christ Proved from Scripture

I. Did Jesus claim to be God?

1. Jesus claimed the Divine Name (‘I AM’)

Exodus 3:14
13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The LORD,  the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

John 8:58
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

Why did the Jews want to stone Jesus if they did not believe that He was claiming to be God?

2. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and equal to God.

John 5:18
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

3. Jesus claimed to be the First and the Last – a Title Reserved for God Alone

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me.”

Revelation 1:17-18
“Do not be afraid; I [Jesus] am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”

Would a mere prophet claim to be the “First and the Last”?

4. Jesus claimed to be Truth – not just to proclaim the truth.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

5. Jesus claimed to share in Divine Glory

In the Old Testament, we find that Yahweh will not share his glory with anyone.

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another.” (Cf. Isaiah 48:11—“My glory I will not give to another.”)

Yet Jesus claimed, not only that he would be glorified with the Father, but that he had glory with the Father before the world was created!

John 17:5
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”

How can anyone see this as anything other than a claim to deity?

6. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and the Son of God Before the Sanhedrin

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Daniel prophesied that the Son of Man would be worshiped as God.

Mark 14:61-65
61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death.

Replying to the High Priest at His trial before the Sanhedrin, Jesus quoted the Daniel and applied this prophecy to Himself.

II. Did Jesus act as God might act?

1. Jesus forgave sins – which only God can do.

Luke 5:20

2. Jesus accepted worship.

Matthew 2:2, 11
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 28:9, 17
Luke 24:52
John 9:35-38

3. Jesus did not reject worship.

Revelation 19:10 – the angel tells John to worship God only; Jesus never tells anyone not to worship Him.

+++

Beyond this, we have information about what his disciples believed, what his enemies believed, even what the demons Jesus confronted believed. Let me know if you would like to see that.

(July 16, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Divinity of Jesus Christ Proved from Scripture

I. Did Jesus claim to be God?

1. Jesus claimed the Divine Name (‘I AM’)

And here we go again. Bible proves bible. You simply don't get it that it's a credible to us as Harry Potter proving Harry Potter's existence.

(July 16, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(July 15, 2015 at 8:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Mostly likely there was a rabbi or prophet named Jesus about 2000ish years ago.


That's a slightly different question.  There would be no Christianity if he'd never preached.  But, I don't think Christianity has much to do with what he taught.  I'm not sure he thought he was divine.

The Divinity of Jesus Christ Proved from Scripture

I. Did Jesus claim to be God?

1. Jesus claimed the Divine Name (‘I AM’)

Exodus 3:14
13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The LORD,  the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

John 8:58
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

Why did the Jews want to stone Jesus if they did not believe that He was claiming to be God?

2. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and equal to God.

John 5:18
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

3. Jesus claimed to be the First and the Last – a Title Reserved for God Alone

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me.”

Revelation 1:17-18
“Do not be afraid; I [Jesus] am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”

Would a mere prophet claim to be the “First and the Last”?

4. Jesus claimed to be Truth – not just to proclaim the truth.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

5. Jesus claimed to share in Divine Glory

In the Old Testament, we find that Yahweh will not share his glory with anyone.

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another.” (Cf. Isaiah 48:11—“My glory I will not give to another.”)

Yet Jesus claimed, not only that he would be glorified with the Father, but that he had glory with the Father before the world was created!

John 17:5
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”

How can anyone see this as anything other than a claim to deity?

6. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and the Son of God Before the Sanhedrin

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Daniel prophesied that the Son of Man would be worshiped as God.

Mark 14:61-65
61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death.

Replying to the High Priest at His trial before the Sanhedrin, Jesus quoted the Daniel and applied this prophecy to Himself.

II. Did Jesus act as God might act?

1. Jesus forgave sins – which only God can do.

Luke 5:20

2. Jesus accepted worship.

Matthew 2:2, 11
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 28:9, 17
Luke 24:52
John 9:35-38

3. Jesus did not reject worship.

Revelation 19:10 – the angel tells John to worship God only; Jesus never tells anyone not to worship Him.

+++

Beyond this, we have information about what his disciples believed, what his enemies believed, even what the demons Jesus confronted believed. Let me know if you would like to see that.

I think she already knows you think Jesus was divine.  You already know that I don't consider the words written in the bible to be all that historically accurate particularly not John, Exodus, Isaiah, or Revelations.

(July 16, 2015 at 11:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you guys believe that Mohammad, Cleopatra, Aristotle were real people?

You know, this kind of question really does betray your own ignorance.

What is a question like this supposed to imply? The answer to such a question should be pretty obvious to any person who has done the least possible amount of research besides none at all IMO. But when a question like this is asked it only serves to muddy the waters between actual historical figures that have multitudes of evidence for their existence, and religious figures who have barely any at all besides the testimony of their respective religions.