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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 3:55 pm
(July 21, 2015 at 3:23 pm)robvalue Wrote: The idea that "faith" is a good means to knowledge should be stood up to in my opinion. It's the core of the stupidity and danger of religion. It stands in the way of the progress of individuals and society. Maybe ex theists can see that very clearly and it motivates them.
Obviously I'm not talking about randomly hassling people on the street about it though.
Yes. The long version of why faith is bad is explained in an essay by William Kingdon Clifford:
http://ajburger.homestead.com/files/book.htm
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 3:56 pm
Are we rounding them all up?
Finally
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 3:58 pm
(July 21, 2015 at 3:52 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: (July 21, 2015 at 3:47 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: That does not mean that they cannot do bad things for other reasons.
Bingo. So rounding up the theists and doing interventions to set their minds straight may be more radical that the situation calls for.
And if I were ever to seriously advocate such a thing, then you should call me out on it. But I have not advocated any such thing.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 3:59 pm
Well no but there seems to be a popular idea that those theists that come here to AF.org are answerable to each and every ex-theist with an axe to grind. I less and less respectfully disagree, especially when the theist in question has done nothing to deserve any of it.
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 4:37 pm
I'm not an ex-theist; I've never believed, but I will admit to having a tendency towards "anti-religious vehemence", mostly as a means of pushing back against the massive amounts of religion western society tries to shove down my throat. The hypocritical and harmful things religious people do in the name of their god, like banning gay marriage and firing transgender people from their jobs makes me angry and resentful towards them. If they could leave well enough alone and believe what they wanted without forcing it on others and using it as an excuse for blatant discrimination, I wouldn't care, but I feel under constant attack from religion, and subsequently feel like I have to push back and try to "covert" a few to my side, before our 16% dwindles to nothing and we suffocate under the weight of bigotry and ignorance.
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Am I insufferable about my 12 Stepping ?
{said with quavering voice and quivering lip}
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm
(July 21, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: The analogy of the opening post is way off. Religious people murder people every day. They discriminate against people every day. It is right and proper to fight against such things.
If religious people did not affect others with their poison, then tolerating them would be fine. But those fuckers are all about fucking over other people, and they should be stopped.
My point exactly! Kudos Pyrrho.
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 4:46 pm
The problem with newbie atheists is that they make us look like this guy
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Quote:Of course the good deeds done due to religion count. Now, tell me, how many good deeds does it take to balance against a beheading? If you need more examples of the deeds caused by religion, you don't have to look very hard for them. All you need to do is keep looking at Minimalist's threads in which he keeps adding atrocity after atrocity to the lists. Or, if you want, you can search on your own.
Indeed, how many? is this about quantity or quality, after all? BTW, why should people who do nothing wrong be taken into account by what others decide to do? Do you think marxist sympathizers should be blamed for what some communists did? I am very aware of the hazardous effect of believing dogmatically, and I don't need further explanations on that - Trust me - I also know that nothing happens merely because of one variable but by a mix of causes that lead people to commit horrible actions. There isn't a correlation between any belief and violence, there is a correlation between fundamentalist dogmatism and violence/crime.
Quote:Maybe you think it does not matter because the example to which I link above is about some brown-skinned woman in a poor country. I say, religion needs to be combated, as it is a danger to civilization. Religion may be mostly tamed in your country, but that is not how it is elsewhere. And it has not been tamed by its choice in your country either. Given the chance, we can expect the same actions as were the case in the past. After all, they still have the same texts and organizations of the past that inspired such things.
Oh please, I feel sorry for all the horrible things people go trough daily, but more than caring about the X or Y doctrine criminals claim to follow I'm worried about the suffering of people. yes, religion is under control in my country - By the way, with the support of both Christians/religious people and non-religious ones, so it's not like religious people want a theocracy (at least sane ones).
They do, but so what? Organizations change, or have different leaders - Books are just books, who cares? The bible is a book, the Quran is a book, you can read it and use it for whatever purpose you please - There is no one (I hope) pointing a gun and telling you that you can only use the bible with a literalist interpretation.
Quote:Edited to add:
When smokers and drinkers start beheading others due to their smoking and drinking, then we can start to talk about how such things compare with religion. But otherwise, it is a bullshit analogy.
Pyrrho, you're too smart for this - Are you seriously arguing that because one side does it worse, the other is ignorable? isn't that what anti-feminists do about women's issues in the west (that they even claim don't exist)? Tell me why I shouldn't feel bad about smokers being marginalized, just because some people have it worse? How many people do behead? Are they a majority of theists? Again I ask, are communists responsible because one day some older communists decided that everyone who was a "traitor" should be executed and sent to gulags? Why should a Christian living in France even care or feel bad about what a retarded pastor in America says about gays? Why should a successful middle class Muslim living in Europe feel bad about what ISIS is doing? Why is religion special when it comes to harm, when it is merely one of the things that causes it?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: Ex-theists are often like ex-smokers, sanctimonious and insufferable.
July 21, 2015 at 4:59 pm
(July 21, 2015 at 4:37 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Am I insufferable about my 12 Stepping ?
{said with quavering voice and quivering lip}
No.
(Of course, I only speak for myself on this, so it may matter little to you.)
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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