Donald Trump and political correctness

[abaris]

I've seen it tossed out a lot that Donald Trumps success and appeal to some republican primary voters is largely a response to the (insane) political correctness that we hold our politicians to. It does seem that we've set up a system where politicians are not allowed to actually speak their mind without being forced to make several apologies. Although I absolutely don't support Donald Trump, I do think the one refreshing thing about him is that he doesn't apologize for things that he says.

That's actually a phenomenon you can observe around the world. Certain people mistake rude words for having guts. Even more so if it plays to their own prejudices. immigrants happen to be the #1 running gag of rightwing populists around the world. Also the simplistic solutions such as building a wall to keep them all out, is nothing original. It's the tough guy shtick, since they actually don't have to prove to have real solutions. Many of their fanbase wouldn't understand a more complex procedure anyway. They're fear driven and it appeals to them when someone appears to be Iron man taking on the whole world.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, calling immigrants "rapists" seems like it's at the small end of the bell-curve. He's also said that he'll make Mexico pay for a border wall, which is a unique and unfulfillable promise.

Seriously, his mouth is in fourth, his brains in neutral.

I think calling immigrants rapists isn't a political point of view.

You added the stipulation "political" that wasn't present previously.

I don't think Donald Trump has particularly unique or extreme political opinions.

Political views? Perhaps not. But if you only consider the political views a man holds when weighing your vote, does that mean you'd seriously consider Mike Huckabee? After all, his faith is not a political view. But you and I both know that it will goddamned well inform his political views.

In the same way, Trump's racism is not a political view, but if you think they won't affect how he goes about things like enforcing CRA1964, I'd have to disagree. And that means that his non-political views are equally worthy of scrutiny.

I guess you could say having Mexico pay for a wall (something that will never happen anyway) is a slight variation on building a wall. There is a wall between most of the border already anyway. It's a pretty secure border, certainly the most secure one I've ever crossed and I've crossed plenty. It's also not really a controversial position. 51% of people want to build a wall.

The idea of trying to force one of our two immediate neighbors to assume the burden will only alienate that neighbor ... hardly the way to get cooperation on this and other tough problems that we need them to help with.

Also, less than 18% of the border is walled-off.

So I don't think Donald actually has any positions out of the mainstream. He just has a way of expressing them that is out of the mainstream for politicians.

Don't you think that tact is an essential quality a President should possess? How do you think his thoughtless, obnoxious style will do in foreign relations?

Oh, and I am going to take this moment to say that while I may seem like I'm defending Donald Trump here, I am not. I am just stating what is actually extreme and what is not. I think a wall it totally silly. It represents a 2 minute delay to illegal immigrants on their trip to the US.

It's cool. I think calling immigrants "rapists" is extreme and probably rooted in racism of one form or another. He won't get my vote because I think extreme racial views are just as disqualifying as extreme political views.

[CapnAwesome]

Oh I agree he has no qualifications. That is what I care about, not his comments on immigrants, which everyone obsesses about.

As a son of a Mexican immigrant his comments about immigrants piss me off greatly. He's talking about force whole families of Mexicans back to Mexico. USA has a track record of fucking this up and deporting U.S. citizens (like me) in the process. This scares me greatly.
Secondly, I don't see how making legal immigrant and naturalization absurdly difficult helps stop terrorists and drug lords at all. I have a friend from the Netherlands who is having a difficult time immigrating here. This shit is stupid.

Finally, he plans to waste money on a fucking wall.

His immigration policy isn't really very different from about half the other GOPers or out of the mainstream for America. His comments might be, but why is that really important at all?

[abaris]

His immigration policy isn't really very different from about half the other GOPers or out of the mainstream for America. His comments might be, but why is that really important at all?

Ever played with the thought that the person in question might just be a loud mouthed moron? Primitive to the core? Loaded with every possible prejudice, ranging from racism to sexism?

That's the first thing going through my mind when I hear people like that.

[CapnAwesome]

His immigration policy isn't really very different from about half the other GOPers or out of the mainstream for America. His comments might be, but why is that really important at all?

Ever played with the thought that the person in question might just be a loud mouthed moron? Primitive to the core? Loaded with every possible prejudice, ranging from racism to sexism?

That's the first thing going through my mind when I hear people like that.

No, I don't think that. Unlike many people on these boards I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me politically are racists or sexists or idiots. I keep an open mind and also try to understand why people have the political position they do. Also keep in mind 50% of America wants to build a wall on the border (I am not one of those people, I think it's silly) So to call it a racist idea is to demonize your neighbors and is also unproductive when it comes to convincing people of a better way.

The idiot thing in particular gets thrown out way too much. I makes me think less of the people who say it, like they can't understand the political positions other people have so assume they are stupid.

[abaris]

No, I don't think that. Unlike many people on these boards I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me politically are racists or sexists or idiots.

Excuse me. His statements on immigrants and women don't leave that much room for speculation. Either he's playing a role or he's feeling what he's saying.

[Pizza]

His immigration policy isn't really very different from about half the other GOPers or out of the mainstream for America. His comments might be, but why is that really important at all?

What is your point? Do actually have a point?

[CapnAwesome]

No, I don't think that. Unlike many people on these boards I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me politically are racists or sexists or idiots.

Excuse me. His statements on immigrants and women don't leave that much room for speculation. Either he's playing a role or he's feeling what he's saying.

Being against immigration isn't a racist issue. Did you know that Mexican isn't a race? Mexico is a multi-racial society. I don't know what the obsession with making everything seem racist is. It reminds me of when Muslims scream racism when people bash on Islam.

[abaris]

Did you know that Mexican isn't a race?

Spare me the bullshit - let's call him a bigot - right. So that you're tender sense of semantics is satisfied. And calling them all rapists and criminals goes beyond being against immigration. Quite a bit.

[CapnAwesome]

Did you know that Mexican isn't a race?

Spare me the bullshit - let's call him a bigot - right. So that you're tender sense of semantics is satisfied. And calling them all rapists and criminals goes beyond being against immigration. Quite a bit.

Gah, I don't know why I'm even defending Donald Trump, I don't think he's qualified at all to be president. It's not some insignificant semantic point. Racism is a serious fucking charge. If someone called me a racist I would be upset about it. It's also something that is widely despised. That's why people constantly and illegitimately throw out the label racist all the time. All the time. It's also a cheap and anti-intellectual tactic where people don't want to confront or can't understand someone's political position so brush the person off as a racist.

Also, I don't care about the way someone says something. Considering that his immigration policy is the same as most people, the way he articulated it isn't that important. I don't demand political correctness from my candidates and you do.