The Atheist Obsession with Insulting Christians

[Thumpalumpacus]

Before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, researchers who attempted to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million. After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of 799,455 executions (1921–1953), around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – with a total of about 2.9 million officially recorded victims in these categories.

Official records from the USSR aren't necessarily very reliable. The advent of extrajudicial punishment meant that many deaths were never recorded.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, researchers who attempted to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million. After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of 799,455 executions (1921–1953), around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – with a total of about 2.9 million officially recorded victims in these categories.

Official records from the USSR aren't necessarily very reliable. The advent of extrajudicial punishment meant that many deaths were never recorded.

Granted, there were likely quite a few extrajudicial killings, but nothing on the order of massacres that would change the results by a huge margin. But the Soviets actually tended to keep pretty good records, most of the time, and they weren't exactly ashamed of anything they were doing, such that they'd try to hide it. If there's one thing socialist republics do well, it's bureaucracy! 

However, it's why I was easily willing to concede the higher number of 20 million as the "concensus" estimate, while noting that the number of actual executions in the name of the state (the ones that would have been done publicly, "to make a point for effect"), which is the only category that actually bears on the original topic of "killing in the name of atheism", was far, far lower.

[abaris]

I wonder why we're even back to dictator comparisons. You show me a Stalin and I show you a Franco, a Mussolini or raise you one Hitler.

We were over this numerous times. Yes, Stalin was an atheist, but he didn't rage in the name of atheism, but in the name of Marxism. In truth, he committed his atrocities for the greater glory of Stalin and for his perceived safety. And Franco, Mussolini or Hitler didn't commit their crimes in the name of religion although they were religious. They did commit them in the name of their respective ideology.

It's asinine and one of the reasons this thread has some merit. I love to insult arrogant, ignorant and stupid people. That's a perfect example. People bringing up this kind of bullshit I insult happily without a moment's notice. So, please feel yourself insulted, Huggy, since you're either a dishionest little shit or simply too stupid to be let out on the streets on your own.

[Randy Carson]

I did not ask you to prove God exists, I asked you to provide evidence that his body count is bigger than Stalin's.

Since you lack any sort of reading comprehension I'll repeat myself.

Okay, well then it's simple. Best estimates of the Crusades are 5 million killed in the first four Crusades, while Stalin only killed 2.9 (this number includes deaths in the Gulags and forced relocations, in addition to actual executions).

Not even close. The estimates are more like:

1 MAO ZEDONG
China (1949-76) Regime Communist Victims 60 million
China’s so-called ‘Great Helmsman’ was in fact the greatest mass murderer in history. Most of his victims were his fellow Chinese, murdered as ‘landlords’ after the communist takeover, starved in his misnamed ‘Great Leap Forward’ of 1958-61, or killed and tortured in labour camps in the Cultural Revolution of the Sixties. Mao’s rule, with its economic mismanagement and continual political upheavals, also spelled poverty for most of China’s untold millions. The country embraced capitalism long after his death.

2 JOSEPH STALIN
Soviet Union (1929-53) Regime Communist Victims 40 million
Lenin’s paranoid successor was the runner-up to Mao in the mass-murder stakes. Stalin imposed a deliberate famine on Ukraine, killed millions of the wealthier peasants – or ‘kulaks’ – as he forced them off their land, and purged his own party, shooting thousands and sending millions more to work as slaves and perish in the Gulag.

3 ADOLF HITLER
Germany (1933-45) Regime Nazi dictatorship Victims 30 million
The horror of Adolf Hitler’s dictatorship lies in the uniqueness of his most notorious crime, the Holocaust, which stands alone in the annals of inhuman cruelty. It was carried out under the cover of World War II, a conflict Hitler pursued with the goal of obtaining ‘Lebensraum’. The war ended up costing millions of lives, leaving Europe devastated and his Third Reich in ruins.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...z3mVBCoPlB

[Bad Wolf]

Did you seriously just use an online newspaper as a source?

[Jackalope]

Did you seriously just use an online newspaper as a source?

Even worse, he used the Daily Fail.

Some would consider the Daily Mail to be only slightly more credible than this periodical (which, sadly, has folded):

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[Randy Carson]

So, this is the Randy Carson who came here uninvited, thumping his hollow theistic chest, claiming to be the "new sheriff in town"?  Whining about being insulted?

When a theist falls off his imaginary podium when no one is around to listen, I guess he still does makes a splat.

The OP demonstrates that the phenomenon of atheists being rude is not unique to this particular forum or to your responses to me.

[Randy Carson]

Did you seriously just use an online newspaper as a source?

Only because I liked the way they formatted the information...which is available from any number of sites.

Take your pick.

[Jenny A]

Okay, well then it's simple. Best estimates of the Crusades are 5 million killed in the first four Crusades, while Stalin only killed 2.9 (this number includes deaths in the Gulags and forced relocations, in addition to actual executions).

Not even close. The estimates are more like:

1 MAO ZEDONG
China (1949-76) Regime Communist Victims 60 million
China’s so-called ‘Great Helmsman’ was in fact the greatest mass murderer in history. Most of his victims were his fellow Chinese, murdered as ‘landlords’ after the communist takeover, starved in his misnamed ‘Great Leap Forward’ of 1958-61, or killed and tortured in labour camps in the Cultural Revolution of the Sixties. Mao’s rule, with its economic mismanagement and continual political upheavals, also spelled poverty for most of China’s untold millions. The country embraced capitalism long after his death.

2 JOSEPH STALIN
Soviet Union (1929-53) Regime Communist Victims 40 million
Lenin’s paranoid successor was the runner-up to Mao in the mass-murder stakes. Stalin imposed a deliberate famine on Ukraine, killed millions of the wealthier peasants – or ‘kulaks’ – as he forced them off their land, and purged his own party, shooting thousands and sending millions more to work as slaves and perish in the Gulag.

3 ADOLF HITLER
Germany (1933-45) Regime Nazi dictatorship Victims 30 million
The horror of Adolf Hitler’s dictatorship lies in the uniqueness of his most notorious crime, the Holocaust, which stands alone in the annals of inhuman cruelty. It was carried out under the cover of World War II, a conflict Hitler pursued with the goal of obtaining ‘Lebensraum’. The war ended up costing millions of lives, leaving Europe devastated and his Third Reich in ruins.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...z3mVBCoPlB

Hitler was raised Catholic and may or may not have believed in some higher power.  But he killed because he was racist and to gain power, not as a crusading atheist.  And he didn't give a damn about whether Jews believed in god, only that they had Jewish ancestry. And those who carried out his orders were almost invariably Christian.  And he appealed to Christians for why Jews should be killed.  It's a wash.  Catholics were implicit partly out of fear and partly out of racism.  Ditto Christians in general.  Both Catholics and Lutherans participated.  So victims 30 million a wash.

Mao may have believed in a higher power or not.  Who cares?.  He killed people because of their political beliefs, or more accurately for their failure to comply, not over religion or lack there of.

Ditto Stalin.

Neither Stalin nor Mao would have hesitated to kill an atheist.  They both killed for power and out of paranoia.

But the inquisition and the burning of heretics elsewhere and the holy wars.  Those were because of religion.  And people were killed because of their religion not because of race or politics.

[Bad Wolf]

Only because I liked the way they formatted the information...which is available from any number of sites.

Take your pick.

How about you link to a site owned by the people who gathered the data in the first place?