We can be certain of NO resurrection - A Response

[GrandizerII]

Cool story, bro.

By the way, it's "you're".

[Faith No More]

Do we really need to even address the idea that a man came back from the dead after being tortured and murdered through the stages of crucifixion?  At what point does a claim become so absurd that it can just be dismissed outright?  It seems to me that the resurrection crosses this line.  It doesn't even deserve to be refuted.

Even if you could prove the tomb was empty and that he actually came back to life, who is to say that it wasn't done by aliens with hyper-advanced technology, right?

[Minimalist]

Yeah it is, shithead.  There is absolutely no evidence that martians invaded the Ohio Valley in 1832.  I suppose you think that means it may have happened?

We had the writings of Philo and Josephus in addition to the coins minted by Pilate's administration.  BTW, both Philo and Josephus do not make Pilate out to be the vacillating, lilly-livered wimp of your silly gospels.  They make him out to be a major prick.

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You're saying that on the basis of the writings of Philo and Josephus, we can accept the existence of Pontius Pilate? Interesting.

If that's true, I suppose we should also include the brief mention made by Tacitus; the four canonical gospels; the Gospel of Nicodemus; the Gospel of Marcion; and other apocryphal works.

<dramatic pause before springing the trap>

So, if we can accept the existence of the historical Pontius Pilate based upon the writings of Josephus, Tacitus and a few others, we can accept the existence of the historical Jesus based upon the writings of those same authors.

Game. Set. Match.

Goodnight, Min. Pleasant dreams.

Good grief you are one stupid motherfucker.

Hey asshole.

All the gods together rose from their seats before the face of their father; no one dared to await his coming, but they all rose up before him. [535] So he sat down there upon his throne; but Hera saw, and failed not to note how silver-footed Thetis, daughter of the old man of the sea, had taken counsel with him. Forthwith then she spoke to Zeus, son of Cronos, with mocking words: “Who of the gods, crafty one, has now again taken counsel with you? [540] Always is it your pleasure to hold aloof from me, and to give judgments which you have pondered in secret, nor have you ever brought yourself with a ready heart to declare to me the matter which you devise.” In answer to her spoke the father of men and gods: “Hera, do not hope to know all my words: [545] hard will they prove for you, though you are my wife. Whatever it is fitting for you to hear, this none other shall know before you, whether of gods or men; but what I wish to devise apart from the gods, of all this do not in any way inquire nor ask.” [550] In answer to him spoke the ox-eyed lady Hera:

Homer, Iliad Book I

So since it is written in a silly old book you must agree that Zeus and the rest of the Olympian gods are real.  That's going to get you in trouble with your jealous shit of a god, boy.
Better go atone.

Your problem, Randy, and it is true of all xtian assholes, is that you think your shit is special.  It isn't.  It is just ancient shit.

[Huggy Bear]

Randy's problem here:

1. 1. he was a wealthy man (cf. Mt 27:57)
   
2. 2. he was a member of the Jewish ruling council (Mk 15:43)
   
3. 3. he was a secret disciple of Jesus (cf. Mt 27:57, Jn 19:38)
   
4. 4. he asked Pilate for the body of Jesus (cf. Mt 27:58)
   
5. 5. he buried Jesus by wrapping Jesus’ body in a linen cloth, placing it in his own tomb (caved out of rock) and rolling a stone over the entrance. (Mt 27:59-60)
   

is that he gets his "facts" from one work of fiction.  I bet we could go through A Christmas Carol and come with five "facts" about Ebeneezer Scrooge, too.  Except they would not be "factual" they would simply be figments of the author's imagination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimathea

Arimathea (Ancient Greek: Ἁριμαθαία), according to the Gospel of Luke (xxiii. 51), was "a city of Judea". It was reportedly the home town of Joseph of Arimathea, who appears in all four Gospel accounts of the Passion for having donated his new tomb outside Jerusalem to receive the body of Jesus. Apart from the Bible, there is no record of a place called Arimathea existing.

IOW, the gospels are horseshit.

Wait, so what you're saying is that there is no record of a HEBREW city that goes by the Greek translation of "Arimathea"? Tell me it ain't so.......

[Wyrd of Gawd]

---

Actually, we do know a few things:

1. 1. he was a wealthy man (cf. Mt 27:57)
   
2. 2. he was a member of the Jewish ruling council (Mk 15:43)
   
3. 3. he was a secret disciple of Jesus (cf. Mt 27:57, Jn 19:38)
   
4. 4. he asked Pilate for the body of Jesus (cf. Mt 27:58)
   
5. 5. he buried Jesus by wrapping Jesus’ body in a linen cloth, placing it in his own tomb (caved out of rock) and rolling a stone over the entrance. (Mt 27:59-60)

   ---

Yeah, I know one other thing. He was one suspicious guy ...

Old Joe was a cannibal.  He got the corpse and ate it because he wanted to gain eternal life just like Jesus had said he would if he was to eat his flesh and drink his blood.  Remember, the crowd took it literally when they first heard it, which is why they stopped following Jesus because they then knew that he was a lunatic.  But old Joe believed and he had some Jesus rump roast for dinner.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

---

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You're saying that on the basis of the writings of Philo and Josephus, we can accept the existence of Pontius Pilate? Interesting.

If that's true, I suppose we should also include the brief mention made by Tacitus; the four canonical gospels; the Gospel of Nicodemus; the Gospel of Marcion; and other apocryphal works.

<dramatic pause before springing the trap>

So, if we can accept the existence of the historical Pontius Pilate based upon the writings of Josephus, Tacitus and a few others, we can accept the existence of the historical Jesus based upon the writings of those same authors.

Game. Set. Match.

Goodnight, Min. Pleasant dreams.

Good grief you are one stupid motherfucker.

Hey asshole.

All the gods together rose from their seats before the face of their father; no one dared to await his coming, but they all rose up before him. [535] So he sat down there upon his throne; but Hera saw, and failed not to note how silver-footed Thetis, daughter of the old man of the sea, had taken counsel with him. Forthwith then she spoke to Zeus, son of Cronos, with mocking words: “Who of the gods, crafty one, has now again taken counsel with you? [540] Always is it your pleasure to hold aloof from me, and to give judgments which you have pondered in secret, nor have you ever brought yourself with a ready heart to declare to me the matter which you devise.” In answer to her spoke the father of men and gods: “Hera, do not hope to know all my words: [545] hard will they prove for you, though you are my wife. Whatever it is fitting for you to hear, this none other shall know before you, whether of gods or men; but what I wish to devise apart from the gods, of all this do not in any way inquire nor ask.” [550] In answer to him spoke the ox-eyed lady Hera:

Homer, Iliad Book I

So since it is written in a silly old book you must agree that Zeus and the rest of the Olympian gods are real.  That's going to get you in trouble with your jealous shit of a god, boy.
Better go atone.

---

Your problem, Randy, and it is true of all xtian assholes, is that you think your shit is special.  It isn't.  It is just ancient shit.

See the problem is that his shit is a Jewish fairy tale so it has to be true.  It's really that simple and once you understand it then you will understand why people believe Jewish fairy tales without a second thought.

[Brian37]

Nope, it never happened. Once you die you stay dead. Do not blame those whom accept modern science for the garbage of the past we had no hand in writing.

[SofaKingHigh]

Randy's problem here:



is that he gets his "facts" from one work of fiction.  I bet we could go through A Christmas Carol and come with five "facts" about Ebeneezer Scrooge, too.  Except they would not be "factual" they would simply be figments of the author's imagination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimathea


IOW, the gospels are horseshit.

Wait, so what you're saying is that there is no record of a HEBREW city that goes by the Greek translation of "Arimathea"? Tell me it ain't so.......

No, he definitely said the gospels are horseshit.

[Minimalist]

Um, xtians CLAIM that it is a jewish fairy tale....jews have a different p-o-v.

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

What About Jesus?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.

IOW, as Trump would put it, "Jesus was a LOSER!"

[Wyrd of Gawd]

So how in the hell do Gentiles get to hitch their wagon onto the Jewish messiah?