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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:10 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:06 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:04 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: well Jesus said there is only one God and he rose from the dead to prove all He said was true so I'm going to reject all other people who claim to know the truth
Sigh...
How do you know that Jesus said that? How do you know he rose from the dead?
Why are any other claims automatically rejected? Are you in a cult?
Christianity hinges on one event the resurrection of Jesus
I was under the impression that atheists knew the arguments for the resurrection and rejected them
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:11 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:07 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:03 pm)Beccs Wrote: There are many more ancient empty tombs - that have actually been found! - in Egypt and elsewhere.
Guess they all resurrected too.
Again, we have these tombs and they've been investigated. We don't have the tomb of Jesus and the only claims of an empty tomb are from his followers, which are contradictory. Can you provide non-biblical citation, please.
Also, you haven't provided any evidence that Thor is mythical.
eye witnesses claiming to see Jesus after he was killed alive.
around 500 plus the apostles and paul
odds of 500 people going crazy all at once is improbable
Again, biblical claims.
I've asked for non biblical references.
At the time, Jerusalem was under Roman control. Why have none of the records from the time confirmed the reports? The dead getting up and walking around the city was probably somewhat news worthy, huh?
And again, you're ignoring the proof that Thor isn't real.
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:17 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:10 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Christianity hinges on one event the resurrection of Jesus
I was under the impression that atheists knew the arguments for the resurrection and rejected them
There aren't any arguments for the resurrection. There's the assertion that it happened, and then a cadre of ideologues trying to spin the absolute lack of justification for that claim as proof positive on its own. They are literally suggesting that zero is a positive number, and that that number equals Jesus.
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:18 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2015 at 3:20 pm by sinnerdaniel94.)
(October 28, 2015 at 3:11 pm)Beccs Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:07 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: eye witnesses claiming to see Jesus after he was killed alive.
around 500 plus the apostles and paul
odds of 500 people going crazy all at once is improbable
Again, biblical claims.
I've asked for non biblical references.
At the time, Jerusalem was under Roman control. Why have none of the records from the time confirmed the reports? The dead getting up and walking around the city was probably somewhat news worthy, huh?
And again, you're ignoring the proof that Thor isn't real.
why do you just deny the historical books in the bible flat out?
and Jesus was only seen of the people mentioned in the bible so how can anyone else report on it?
(October 28, 2015 at 3:17 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:10 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Christianity hinges on one event the resurrection of Jesus
I was under the impression that atheists knew the arguments for the resurrection and rejected them
There aren't any arguments for the resurrection. There's the assertion that it happened, and then a cadre of ideologues trying to spin the absolute lack of justification for that claim as proof positive on its own. They are literally suggesting that zero is a positive number, and that that number equals Jesus.
yes there are
why don't you go research them
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:20 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:10 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Christianity hinges on one event the resurrection of Jesus
I was under the impression that atheists knew the arguments for the resurrection and rejected them
Daniel. I am talking to you, not "Christianity." There are over 40,000 sects of Christianity. I have no idea which of those sects you are a part of. I, unlike you, will not treat you like I know what your position is. I am asking you to clarify so that I can understand what you think, not what Christianity thinks.
So, instead of strawmanning your position, I ask these questions to find out what you actually believe. I am treating you like a human with individual thoughts and not some buzzing drone of the Christian hive mind. Kindly return the favor.
In point of fact, one of the most infuriating parts of talking with you, Daniel, is your insistence on not clarifying your position. You have proven yourself to be woefully ignorant on a lot of topics, the worst of which is how to talk to people intellectually---forget atheists. You are not coming off as intellectually capable of having a mature conversation. I hope I'm wrong, but you haven't given me any evidence to the contrary.
The Bible is your claim. It cannot also be your proof. If you go down that line of reasoning, then A Song of Ice and Fire is my claim, and I will point to "A Game of Thrones" as proof that the old gods are superior to your Jesus, and that one need only look into the crying eyes of the wierwood face in the godswood to know this is true. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:22 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:08 pm)Beccs Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:00 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: You should probably take your own advice, Daniel.
Thor is the Norse God, who was being worshipped far before your Jesus was even a thing. He was co-opted into a Marvel comic book hero, yes, but Thor was well establised in Proto-Germanic religions before Christianity.
So, you answered my question. You "know" Thor is make belief through sheer willful ignorance.
Disgraceful.
Holy crap. I actually missed that bit.
Careful, Daniel, your ignorance of world religions is showing...
a lot of people on here are ignorant of Christianity
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:24 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2015 at 3:24 pm by Whateverist.)
(October 28, 2015 at 3:10 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:06 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Sigh...
How do you know that Jesus said that? How do you know he rose from the dead?
Why are any other claims automatically rejected? Are you in a cult?
Christianity hinges on one event the resurrection of Jesus
I was under the impression that atheists knew the arguments for the resurrection and rejected them
Correction: I don't care one bit what xtianity may hinge upon and make no ruling regarding the validity of any argument for silly stuff.
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:24 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:22 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:08 pm)Beccs Wrote: Holy crap. I actually missed that bit.
Careful, Daniel, your ignorance of world religions is showing...
a lot of people on here are ignorant of Christianity
Thank you. Lets keep it that way.
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:25 pm
(October 28, 2015 at 3:18 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: (October 28, 2015 at 3:11 pm)Beccs Wrote: Again, biblical claims.
I've asked for non biblical references.
At the time, Jerusalem was under Roman control. Why have none of the records from the time confirmed the reports? The dead getting up and walking around the city was probably somewhat news worthy, huh?
And again, you're ignoring the proof that Thor isn't real.
why do you just deny the historical books in the bible flat out?
and Jesus was only seen of the people mentioned in the bible so how can anyone else report on it?
I dismiss the supernatural claims. There are some interesting historical insights into the times, and the mind sets of the people (something that has, sadly, continued into modern times among some people). But there is the fact that many of the claims of the bible are contradictory, many of the books have been shown to have multiple authors, and much archaeological evidence contradicts the claims.
You ignore all my points again. That is a typical apologist tactic: Ignore uncomfortable facts and more on, hoping we won't notice.
We do.
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RE: Dr. Donald Whitaker - Ex Atheist
October 28, 2015 at 3:25 pm
(October 27, 2015 at 9:50 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: I found that this was a very inspiring testimony. Whether you believe him or not, it is worth watching!
Jesus said,
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
"Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death." Revelation 1:17-18
Let me know what you think about Dr. Whitaker's conversion.
Who cares if he became a believer? What matters is whether he became a believer for good reasons or bad reasons.
A quick internet search will quickly lead to the conclusion that he became a believer for bad reasons.
Did he find demonstrable evidence for the existence of the god he now believes in?
No.
He had a terminal disease and fell for the worst argument there is, F'n Pascal's Wager!
"It's easy to be an atheist when your successful...but it is very difficult to be an atheist when you are laying on your death bed ... you begin to think, what if these people (Christians) are right?" - Donald Whitaker
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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