The New Covenant

[Godscreated]

Well that's not what you implied in the OP, you said that Christ was never meant for the gentiles when plenty of scripture tell us differently. The covenant you quoted is an end times promise, we can see that the Jews haven't to this day received the covenant  in Jeremiah.

It is not! What passage from Jeremiah makes this look like an end-times prophecy?

The passages you quoted silly, I have ask if you've seen this prophecy come to pass yet, well have you.

There are two different "new covenants" - the one in Jeremiah, and the one that Christians believe that's never really made explicit in the gospels (and is delivered by Jesus rather than Jehovah).

Jesus is God and until you can understand this you will never be able to understand the messages from scripture. So John 3:16 isn't explicit, if you believe it's not then you must believe their is nothing explicit about anything. Again have you seen the prophecy in Jeremiah come to pass, does the Israelites or have they ever acted according to the prophecy.

Have you seen the nation of Israel living a promised covenant as the one in Jeremiah, no they never have, this covenant is for the Jews after the God sets up the New Jerusalem on earth, it is for those who didn't choose Christ during those days the ones still living the Mosaic covenant. Just a little hint for you the gentiles were never under the Mosaic covenant.

How is God going to establish this "new covenant" with Israel and Judah in the future when the kingdoms of both Israel and Judah have been completely destroyed?

Destroyed to you but not to the omniscient God of creation. God is referring to the people not necessarily to nations, the two are the Israelis.

GC

[Godscreated]

Hey guys I took the day off and decided to answer what I saw as an argument that wasn't being honestly portrayed. I'll be back at it tomorrow so want have time to answer anytime soon, please do not let that keep you from replying, I'll read them as soon as possible, Thanks for the conversation it's be enjoyable. Have a good rest of the week.

GC

[jenny1972]

i looked for evidence in the old testament that the messiah was to come and save all humanity not just the jews and it wasnt in there in fact in the new testament jesus said that he only came for the jews not the gentiles

Just because you skimmed through the OT or used wiki or what ever and didn't find that Jesus came to save the world doesn't mean it's not in the OT, look harder.
GC

why is it MY job to look for evidence for YOUR claim that the OT predicted that Jesus would come to save all of humanity through self sacrifice .... i make the claim that aliens planned to colonize earth now you go search through scientology texts and show where that is correct its your job .....  NOWHERE in the OT did it say that the Messiah would come to save humanity from sins , jesus did not even say he would do such a thing that was added much much later after his death by the catholic church

and the POINT is that jesus said that he came for the jews , he was the messiah to the jews not the gentiles just like the OT said the Messiah would be for the jews . a human being from the line of king david which jesus claimed he was - the messiah for the jewish people.

[Foxaèr]

Theists have poor interpretation skills, or rather they completely misconstrue scripture for an already conceived personal idea.

[jenny1972]

what do you mean some of the words were "lost" in translation ? dont you think that if translating means that Gods Word will not be translated perfectly then it shouldnt be translated at all ? a change in 1 word or removal of words can change the entire understanding of the intended message . Isnt adding to or taking away of Gods Word spoken against in the bible?

I did not say they were lost to translation, I said, "lost to us...," because there are some words we still can't translate into English or should I say out of Hebrew.
You're thinking of the warning in Revelation and that was for that book alone. Though I will say we should never add to or take away from His word. The idea that a few words that we do not know can change the entire message of God is ridiculous. I've read many books that have been printed with words missing or wrong words printed and have always been able to see what was meant in the book and the books message came trough loud and clear.

GC

"lost to us" is the same thing as lost in translation thats what your saying the words cannot be translated and yes it absolutely can change an entire concept even 1 missing word and why would you accept anything short of absolute perfection if this is really Gods Word you should keep it perfect every single word and not add or subtract from it it might have once been Gods Word but has been corrupted many times over if it ever was inspired by God . what was written in the original greek is worth study if it is from God but the translations are worth nothing at all and cannot be trusted after 2000 years of translation and adding and subtracting to meet the agenda of the political catholic church throughout the ages .

[jenny1972]

It is not! What passage from Jeremiah makes this look like an end-times prophecy?

The passages you quoted silly, I have ask if you've seen this prophecy come to pass yet, well have you.

There are two different "new covenants" - the one in Jeremiah, and the one that Christians believe that's never really made explicit in the gospels (and is delivered by Jesus rather than Jehovah).

Jesus is God and until you can understand this you will never be able to understand the messages from scripture. So John 3:16 isn't explicit, if you believe it's not then you must believe their is nothing explicit about anything. Again have you seen the prophecy in Jeremiah come to pass, does the Israelites or have they ever acted according to the prophecy.

Have you seen the nation of Israel living a promised covenant as the one in Jeremiah, no they never have, this covenant is for the Jews after the God sets up the New Jerusalem on earth, it is for those who didn't choose Christ during those days the ones still living the Mosaic covenant. Just a little hint for you the gentiles were never under the Mosaic covenant.

or maybe the prophesy of jeramiah did not come to pass and never will  - because its just a story told by ancient people and is nothing more than folklore and mythology , and that is the reason it has not happened the probability that its nothing more than a myth is much stronger than the likelihood that it is true and actually from God

[Minimalist]

Xtians should really stop telling jews how to be jews.  It's insulting.

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext7jer3131.html

Again, let us look at the first verse of our passage from Jeremiah 31:31-34:
Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.
This is considered a prophecy because of the first words of the verse, 'Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl.' However, immediately before these few verses that begin with verse 31, there are additional verses that also begin the exact same way, with the words, 'Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl.' When Christians refer to Jeremiah 31:31-34, they are leaving out half of the prophecy because the whole prophecy actually begins with verse 27. As you will read, when one looks at the whole prophecy of Jeremiah 31:27-34, this passage could not be referring to Christianity at all. Here is the whole passage:
Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Etrnl. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, declares the Etrnl. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Etrnl. I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their Gd, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, Know the Etrnl, because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Etrnl. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.
These verses are, indeed, speaking of the Messianic age, however, they are not speaking of the coming of Jesus and Christianity.
Verse 27 speaks of a time when the House of Israel is reunited with the House of Judah, and when they increase in size as well as in resources.

But the scrotum-twisting that xtians engage in with this shit is amusing.  Rabbi Stu invites emails, G-C.  Maybe you should contact him?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

i looked for evidence in the old testament that the messiah was to come and save all humanity not just the jews and it wasnt in there in fact in the new testament jesus said that he only came for the jews not the gentiles
In Matthew 15:22-26 A Canaanite woman (a gentile) from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Jesus calls this woman a dog because she is not the right nationality and he only came for the jews and she was a gentile. jesus identified as the messiah to the jews , prophesied and in and not contradicting the old testament

And then he recognises her faith and heals her daughter:

27 ‘Yes it is, Lord,’ she said. ‘Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.’

28 Then Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.’ And her daughter was healed at that moment.

So Jesus lied about being sent only to the Jews or else he sinned by disobeying his orders.  No wonder he got crucified.

[jenny1972]

Xtians should really stop telling jews how to be jews.  It's insulting.

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext7jer3131.html

Again, let us look at the first verse of our passage from Jeremiah 31:31-34:
Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.
This is considered a prophecy because of the first words of the verse, 'Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl.' However, immediately before these few verses that begin with verse 31, there are additional verses that also begin the exact same way, with the words, 'Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl.' When Christians refer to Jeremiah 31:31-34, they are leaving out half of the prophecy because the whole prophecy actually begins with verse 27. As you will read, when one looks at the whole prophecy of Jeremiah 31:27-34, this passage could not be referring to Christianity at all. Here is the whole passage:
Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Etrnl. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. Behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, declares the Etrnl. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Etrnl. I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their Gd, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, Know the Etrnl, because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Etrnl. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.
These verses are, indeed, speaking of the Messianic age, however, they are not speaking of the coming of Jesus and Christianity.
Verse 27 speaks of a time when the House of Israel is reunited with the House of Judah, and when they increase in size as well as in resources.

But the scrotum-twisting that xtians engage in with this shit is amusing.  Rabbi Stu invites emails, G-C.  Maybe you should contact him?

lol yea really at least learn the history of christianity but most christians are still convinced jesus was born in a manger on december 25 and the wisemen seen a star and brought the baby jesus gifts they will swear by it

[Aractus]

yes he did decide to heal the gentile despite not wanting to because he didnt come for the gentiles but just for the jews so in the end he did have mercy on the gentile dog . thatll probabally be what the apologists say is the proof that jesus came to save all humanity because he showed mercy to that gentile dog 

Look that's a completely subjective interpretation. The fact is he didn't turn her away.

what do you mean some of the words were "lost" in translation !? dont you think that if translating means that Gods Word will not be translated perfectly then it shouldnt be translated at all ? a change in 1 word or removal of words can change the entire understanding of the intended message . Isnt adding to or taking away of Gods Word spoken against in the bible?

Hebrew is a very difficult language to read today - and Strong's dictionary is considered a pretty piss-poor one for Hebrew. Although I do note you linked to the Blue Letter dictionary instead (which is much better). But even with a dictionary you really need an OT scholar to tell you what the meaning is for each instance a word is used. You have to remember that many words are spelled the same in Hebrew, but have different meanings and are spoken differently - an English example is minute vs minute. Two completely different words with different meanings, but are spelled the same. In Hebrew there are no vowels, therefore words that would be spelled different with vowels get spelled the same minute reduces to MNT - how many other English words can you make from that? Amenity for example - completely different English word, but spelled the same without vowels. You can also make names such as Monty or Manet.

When I use 'minute' in a sentence, you have to decipher which word it is from the context - and your brain does that pretty well. If I say 'it's a minute detail' then you read it as 'minute', if I say "In 364 days, 17 hours and 20-something minutes you'll have to remember to hold a minutes silence for remembrance day" then you'll read it as 'minute'.

Of course, this goes to prove that GC has no idea what they're talking about: as he's not a Hebrew scholar he has no authority to say what the meaning of the Hebrew usage in each passage is, he needs to go to the experts and quote them. And he might be able to find one or two out there that agree with his opinion that it's a metaphor: however most scholars involved in modern translations of the Bible who have looked at the passages you mentioned did not think that was the case, otherwise they would have translated accordingly.

He is right that for some Hebrew words the meaning is not known; and their meaning is generally deciphered from the LXX translation.