TBR starts The Quran Reloaded!

[ReptilianPeon]

Wahaabi/Salafi are one type of Sunni. I am sure there are Shias I'd dislike just as much if I went looking. But, just as there are many Sunnis who I can tolerate, there are many Shias that I can tolerate. Abdullah Yusuf Ali was an Ishmaili and they are not so "extreme". Don't think Ishmalis are equivalent to Wahaabis. Ishmali men and women hold prayers together (or so I've heard from an Ishmali journalist that was interviewed on the news). And they certainly don't treat the women like objects like the Fascist Wahabi/Salfists do.

Shias are smaller in number to Sunni so that's why they get less attention. Reason I hate Saudis so much is because they spend billions on Dawah, marginalize people and support terrorists with weapons and money. Most of the 9/11 plotters were from Saudi and they get a private jet back to Saudi after 9/11. Iran is not imperialist like the Saudis are - or not to the same extent anyway. If I had to pick between Iran and Saudi, I'd select Iran any day.

Anyway, nobody can agree on anything the Quran says, so we might as well make it say whatever we want it to say. There's no objective way to determine whose interpretation is the interpretation Allah agrees with. People allow their desires to cloud their interpretation.

If people want to consume alcohol then it's not my business. And I'm happy that they do (though I personally chose not to consume alcohol). And besides, I'm not part of the Ulama.

Regarding Abdullah Yusuf Ali: Never mind that you're committing the fallacy of the poison well (and maybe as an Ishmali Mr. Alie doesn't regard those Hadith as authentic anyway), do you want me to find a translation that is not Sunni or Shia? Would you be happy with the Kuffar (he never recited Shahada) Aurthur John Arberry's translation? Or maybe you want me to use an Ibāḍiyya translator (if I can find one)? Ibadis came before Sunni or Shia and they use their own set of Hadith which are not Sunni or Shia. Or maybe you would be happy with an Ahmadiyya translation (of which there are a few)?

So translation choices are:
Kuffar (Aurthur John Arberry)
Ibadi (if I can find one)
or Ahmadi? (e.g. Maulvi Sher Ali or The English Commentary of the Holy Quran, published 1963).

Got better things to do than learn Arabic right now (even though, I suppose, it might be nice to visit Tunisia). And not only that, modern Arabic is no good for the Quran. So if you're not happy then suggest me a translator.

Allah is more just and more divine, to act like a puppet master who creates a puppet show.

Isn't that an admission that there is no free will? And, besides, the Quran does a pretty good job of giving Allah human traits. I think you are grappling with cognitive dissidence.

[WinterHold]

Wahaabi/Salafi are one type of Sunni. I am sure there are Shias I'd dislike just as much if I went looking. But, just as there are many Sunnis who I can tolerate, there are many Shias that I can tolerate. Abdullah Yusuf Ali was an Ishmaili and they are not so "extreme". Don't think Ishmalis are equivalent to Wahaabis. Ishmali men and women hold prayers together (or so I've heard from an Ishmali journalist that was interviewed on the news). And they certainly don't treat the women like objects like the Fascist Wahabi/Salfists do.

Mainly, my problem is with the "Twelver" Shia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

By far, these are one of the most dangerous Muslims you might ever meet. 
Their belief proven wrong long, long ago, but they can still be found in Iran, Bahrain, Syria, Lebanon and the eastern province in Saudi Arabia, they are dangerous beyond belief. 

Nobody was able to tolerate them throughout history, even the Abbasids who were nice to Shia, in general. Twelvers are now the majority of Shiia.
I never knew how dangerous they are, until I started to deal with them. They lie, and consider it a type of worship and a good deed, they also worship their God through hurting other Muslims who don't agree with them; in Saudi Arabia, Twelvers stink for days on purpose, so Sunnies get hurt by their smell, they show only a small portion from their faith to westerners and hide the hideous things, things like the link I brought from the site, Shia talk :
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/2349...ir-graves/
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/2350...aliphates/

Please, read this carefully, taken from this link :
http://ashqayaan.blogspot.se/2014/06/ash...ll-be.html

One of the controversial issues that has been narrated in the Shia narrations is the fact that when Imam Al-Mahdi(عليه السلام) reappears, among the first things he does after arriving in Madina, is to take out the corpses of Abu Bakr and Umar out of their graves, fresh and un-decayed. Then he will make them to confess for their crimes against the Family of the Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله وسلم), after that he(عليه السلام)  will hang them from a dry tree and as a final test for their lovers, Allah will make that tree to put forth leaves and turn green. Upon which those who have a disease in their hearts will doubt and be inclined towards them even more than before. By doing this Allah wants to clean the Earth from their lovers, so Imam(عليه السلام) will separate them from the rest of the people and will kill those lovers of Abu Bakr and Umar and burn the corpses of Abu Bakr and Umar and then Allah will send a wind to disperse their ashes.


However some laymen of the Shia have tried to cast doubt on this issue, by just picking one or two narrations and analysis of some of their weak narrators, and then concluding that these narrations are fabricated. In this article I want to use a more scholarly method of putting forward all of those narrations that I found in this regard and see if this is an established fact in our narrations or just a fabricated tale.


First of all it is essential to mention that Raj‘ah is an accepted belief among Shia, about which there is no doubt. Raj’ah refers in particular in the context of End Times to a period of time, in which human beings of the previews generations will return to the world again. The verses of Qur’an and our authentic narrations show that it will not be for all people, but only for certain people of the past from among pure believers and pure disbelievers/hypocrites. Taking this into consideration the first names that come to mind about pure disbelievers are Abu Bakr and Umar, since they are the ones who are responsible for the usurpation of the divine authority from Ahlulbayt(عليه السلام)  and oppressing them and killing them and misleading the entire Ummah. Given this fact there remains no doubt that Abu Bakr and Umar should be among the first ones who will be returned, even if we had no other specific narrations about it. But since we have many narrations naming them specifically among the first ones who will be returned, there remains no excuse to dismiss and reject those narrations. Even if those narrations individually might not have completely authentic chains.

So, we know that Twelver Shia want to anahilate Sunna; since Sunna view Abu Bakr, Omar & Aisha as "faithful companions" of the prophet. And guess what : a Twelver is ready to lie too, to keep up his/her cover, they will use everything to keep this insane psychopathic cult alive, they will use sex, war, deceit, lies, murder, anything. That's why nobody was able to Tolerate them.

And that's why, a country dominated by Twelvers -Like Iran-, would call America "the great Satan" 10 years ago, yet to shake hands with it on a nuclear deal..Guess who would be the first victim of a Shia, Iranian, Twelver atomic attack ? 

I have to admit it : a person who believes in such faith, is a dangerous psychopath. 
Unlike Wahhabies, the twelver Shia faith is built and based on hating others; they pray daily for the anailation of Sunnies, their holly texts say so. 

To lie, is to worship God according to this faith :
And as racists as these crazies might get, you can check this from Wikipedia :

Twelvers believe that the Twelve Imams are the spiritual and political successors to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. According to the theology of Twelvers, the Twelve Imams are exemplary human individuals who not only rule over the community in justice, but also are able to keep and interpret sharia and the esoteric meaning of the Quran. The words and deeds (Sunnah) of Muhammad and the Imams are a guide and model for the community to follow; as a result, Muhammad and the Imams must be free from error and sin, known as Ismah or infallibility, and must be chosen by divine decree, or nass, through Muhammad.[1][2][3]

[/url]
The 12 Imams are from a single family. So, the racists are saying that all humans must subdue and obey the 12 imams who go back to the family of Mohammed.
In case there is no Imam, they put a replacement, like the Imam of Iran : 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei

Because he dates back to Ali, all of us according to that faith, should obey him since the 12th imam haven't come yet. If you don't, then wait for your nick to be cut when "Mahdi comes". Can you imagine living next to a person who believes in this, prays for this, and at your face : lie about it ??
Twelvers and Wahhabies, are the cancers that came out of the Sunni/Shia faiths. 


On the international scene, the Twelver militias have terrorists which are as terrible as ISIS. They domlished Syrians just like Wahhabies did. Russia is secular, but just like America's usage of Wahhabies in warfare (al-qaeda/ISIS), Russia would use Twelvers who sold themselves to the idiotic belief they call faith, and the 12th imam that would "dig dead bodies of ancient people and kill them again".

Wahhabies and Twelvers are the disaster that caused my region -Middle East- to be enslaved. 
But one thing I despise Twelver Shias for, is the lies, deceit & hypocrisy. Their religion is all about hating Sunna, but they lie about it, yet in their mosques and books, they keep cursing Sunnies. 

And they call this Taqia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya#Twelver_Shia_view

Some Shias, though, advance taqiyya as a form of jihad, a sort of fighting against their adversaries.[19]

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya#cite_note-19]
As for alcohol, I dislike it too
My first experience was a local made Egyptian Vodka and....Oh boy I felt like I'm dying. I ended up breaking stuff in the toilet and vomiting on the floor -sorry for the nasty details -_-" -
My stomach can't handle it. Just some brands of whiskey, that's all. I'm more of a "Hasheesh" person :p

[ReptilianPeon]

So you're warning me about all these things about Twelver Shia, and I agree, they are pretty bad them, but Abdullah Yusuf Ali was not a Twelver. He was an Ishmali. So he is different from Twelvers. He believed different things to Twelvers. But thank you for your information about Twelvers. I can use that if I happen to speak to one. Maybe I will switch to Arberry Quran in the future anyway.

If all of the Twelvers and all of the Wahaabis fought and killed each other then world would be a better place then? I am happy for them to continue to kill each other so that we have less crazy people around. Is that bad of me? But can you even reason with people that crazy? I am not sure I could have a sensible discussion with them.

The point you seem to be trying to make is that Shias receive less criticism. I was just as shocked as the next person when found out Yasser Al-Habib was quietly broadcasting from a quintessentially English village. If Zakir Naik is banned from U.K. they should ban Yasser Al-Habib too, if only to be fair. But we should not be banning opinions, even if it's someone Zakir Naik who lies constantly, because it will just activate the persecution complex. Opinions should be where people can see them so that they can be exposed as wrong, rather than silenced.

Funny that they banned Zakir Naik, but not the people who fund him. They even put the flags half-mast when the Saudi king died - and I wanted to be sick. People cheer and clap even when Zakir Naik says the stupidest things because they are braindead.

There's a shop near me that sells Hookahs (probably owned by an Arab) and I really want one... Then all I need is a Fez. But smoking is pretty bad so it'll just be for show.

[WinterHold]

So you're warning me about all these things about Twelver Shia, and I agree, they are pretty bad them, but Abdullah Yusuf Ali was not a Twelver. He was an Ishmali. So he is different from Twelvers. He believed different things to Twelvers. But thank you for your information about Twelvers. I can use that if I happen to speak to one. Maybe I will switch to Arberry Quran in the future anyway.

If all of the Twelvers and all of the Wahaabis fought and killed each other then world would be a better place then? I am happy for them to continue to kill each other so that we have less crazy people around. Is that bad of me? But can you even reason with people that crazy? I am not sure I could have a sensible discussion with them.

The point you seem to be trying to make is that Shias receive less criticism. I was just as shocked as the next person when found out Yasser Al-Habib was quietly broadcasting from a quintessentially English village. If Zakir Naik is banned from U.K. they should ban Yasser Al-Habib too, if only to be fair. But we should not be banning opinions, even if it's someone Zakir Naik who lies constantly, because it will just activate the persecution complex. Opinions should be where people can see them so that they can be exposed as wrong, rather than silenced.

Funny that they banned Zakir Naik, but not the people who fund him. They even put the flags half-mast when the Saudi king died - and I wanted to be sick. People cheer and clap even when Zakir Naik says the stupidest things because they are braindead.

There's a shop near me that sells Hookahs (probably owned by an Arab) and I really want one... Then all I need is a Fez. But smoking is pretty bad so it'll just be for show.

You're welcome.
I just warn, because Wahhabies & Twelvers did so much damage to Islam's image that believe even the enemies of the faith couldn't do.

Wahhabies accuse every Shia of being a Twelver, using the word "Rafeda/ means to reject", while Twelvers accuse every Sunni of being a "Nassyby/means to be anti Ahlu Bayt; the family of prophet Mohammed." And in the middle of this insane generalization, more Muslims are turning atheists from both factions, and more people are dying. 

Ah, not killing..but perhaps change their ways
That's one thing I'm trying to do through this forum : to make change happen. Muslims should stick to the Quran and ignore the poison that the sects casted on the Umma.

Twelvers & people like Yasser-al-Habib posses no threat to western countries; I think the UK already knows that. After all, it is Sunna whom they wanna butcher, not other "Kuffars". I listened to Yasser's disgusting lectures in Arabic as I made my way to my current faith. Those type of Shias are the perfect negative reflection from the Wahhabies : so it makes sense for the UK to keep them in its pocket, to scare the Wahhabies with them -so they don't get out of line; and keep the Saudi cow farm working-. That's why France took "Khomayny" back in the past :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhollah_Khomeini

It's all about balance. That's the key to inherit the middle east.

Both were supposed to get banned from the country, because both believe in terrorist ideologies. I agree on the freedom of speech of course, but for a Twelver to call for my death because I'm against Ali & pro Aisha, and for a Wahhabi to call for my death because I'm anti-Ummayad and have problems with the Hadith, well..I would never want close my eyes next to such people.

They'll never do anything to the people who fund Zakir; Ah, I just discovered that he is the student of Deedat !
I watched a video where some guy is asking him a question, he has awesome gymnastic skills that make him dodge questions like a scene from the movie : the matrix. lol.

But to ban him, and leave Yasser ? that is one hypocritical move.

I'm trying to quit smoking right now. I wasn't hooked on Sheesha though .
Hahaha But hey, it's good if you can mix some herbs with its tobacco.

[ReptilianPeon]

Now that we've established that Abduallah Yusuf Ali is not one of those "bad Shias" which you tell me about you will be fine with his Quran?

Yeah Zakir Naik is a fake medical doctor (he's not listed on the Indian Medical Register) and he worships Ahmed Deedat. That's all there is to Zakir Naik. Yet he is the most famous Wahaabi. In fact, I recently posted about a video that is causing many people to doubt him here. I think he causing many people to become Kuffar.

But Zakir, and his Wahaabi butt buddies (who all get money from al-Saud) like Yusuf Estes and Haitham -Haddad, are all far too arrogant to realize the damage that they are doing. Just shut it, don't ask questions, and give us all your money to brainwash people. They talk about suffering but they don't really care.

I exposed their hypocrisy here of some of Zakir Naiks lackeys here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiaQ9PzwTiM

And the sequel where they actually go to Malawi (where the Christians they moaned about go to to give aid):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv4P068LoaE

[WinterHold]

Now that we've established that Abduallah Yusuf Ali is not one of those "bad Shias" which you tell me about you will be fine with his Quran?

Yeah Zakir Naik is a fake medical doctor (he's not listed on the Indian Medical Register) and he worships Ahmed Deedat. That's all there is to Zakir Naik. Yet he is the most famous Wahaabi. In fact, I recently posted about a video that is causing many people to doubt him here. I think he causing many people to become Kuffar.

But Zakir, and his Wahaabi butt buddies (who all get money from al-Saud) like Yusuf Estes and Haitham -Haddad, are all far too arrogant to realize the damage that they are doing. Just shut it, don't ask questions, and give us all your money to brainwash people. They talk about suffering but they don't really care.

I exposed their hypocrisy here of some of Zakir Naiks lackeys here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiaQ9PzwTiM

And the sequel where they actually go to Malawi (where the Christians they moaned about go to to give aid):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv4P068LoaE

Not necessarily, being a native speaker of Arabic, I know that he turned the singular into a plural in that translation; that's something I can never accept.
I would be lying to you if I confirmed it. I wish you could read Arabic. 

My opinion was always to stick to the words "literally". That's the difference -in my view-, between a biased & as unbiased opinion or translation.

Yah, and I wanted to say something about this video :





The Quran "DID SAY" that alcohol has benefits, and even called it "a sign" :

(Sura 2 Verse 219 )   They ask you about khamr* and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and benefits for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought.

=====
* : to see my point about false translations, the search engine I use translated the word "khamr" to "Wine" at this Sura :
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=2_219&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

Then, translated it to "intoxicantS" in this sura :
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=5_90&m=hafs&qaree=husary&trans=en_sh

( Sura 5 Verse 90 )   O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants (just like the previous verse; it should be "Khamr" only; didn't they translate it to be wine in the previous verse ???), gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.

Also, you can check the original Arabic word, to make sure it exists -exactly how it is- in both Suras. It's written like this :


خمر

If there are any Arab members here who can approve this, it would be nice.


So, the Quran did mention what modern humans needed years and years to conclude : alcohol has benefits, but it's dangerous, so it should be avoided, or used in moderation. So Muslims got a revelation from God, since 1400 years ago, about how alcohol should be dealt with.

====

and lol about the mixing of aid with religious calls. Yes, they criticize Christians for it, but they do it. BTW, Wahhabies kill if others preached different faiths on Islamic land.

[ReptilianPeon]

Why don't you translate the Quran AtlasS33? You clearly seem to know a lot. People make a lot of money selling Qurans these days. You don't have to have sex with Saudi establishment figures to make millions from Quran.

All this talk of the twelve imams reminded me of this video:
(because apparently some Wahaabis think Jafari is legitimate. wtf?)
Lots of dislikes from butthurt Wahaabis when the lies of their pseudo scholars are exposed. I am sure Yusuf Estes and his gaggle of yes-people are happy about the execution of Nimr al-Nimr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUdwIgCX3zI

In regard to my old video, somebody raised that before. It's old. I found some weird Arabic products in a local supermarket and decided to comment. That beef thing I had wasn't too great; there was a chicken version as well. It looked very processed so I was surprised it was considered Halal, considering a nice cut of gammon would clearly be healthier than that garbage.

Maybe you will inform me pork is not really forbidden either now? I remember posting a topic about how the Quran only forbids the flesh of pigs, not the offal. Blood is always haram of course, but it helps to make nice gravy I think (why waste the blood? which is also good replacement for eggs when baking).

N.B. Bacon flavour crisps/chips don't contain any bacon so they must be Halal? They have never been near a pig. Always confused me because if you cook it properly pig meat can be part of a balanced and healthy diet.

[ApeNotKillApe]

So, the Quran did mention what modern humans needed years and years to conclude : alcohol has benefits, but it's dangerous, so it should be avoided, or used in moderation. So Muslims got a revelation from God, since 1400 years ago, about how alcohol should be dealt with.

Which would leave Allah's divine knowledge some 4000 years behind that of human civilization.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

What's up with those rivers of booze in paradise? Or is that why it's paradise?

[WinterHold]

Why don't you translate the Quran AtlasS33? You clearly seem to know a lot. People make a lot of money selling Qurans these days. You don't have to have sex with Saudi establishment figures to make millions from Quran.

All this talk of the twelve imams reminded me of this video:
(because apparently some Wahaabis think Jafari is legitimate. wtf?)
Lots of dislikes from butthurt Wahaabis when the lies of their pseudo scholars are exposed. I am sure Yusuf Estes and his gaggle of yes-people are happy about the execution of Nimr al-Nimr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUdwIgCX3zI

In regard to my old video, somebody raised that before. It's old. I found some weird Arabic products in a local supermarket and decided to comment. That beef thing I had wasn't too great; there was a chicken version as well. It looked very processed so I was surprised it was considered Halal, considering a nice cut of gammon would clearly be healthier than that garbage.

Maybe you will inform me pork is not really forbidden either now? I remember posting a topic about how the Quran only forbids the flesh of pigs, not the offal. Blood is always haram of course, but it helps to make nice gravy I think (why waste the blood? which is also good replacement for eggs when baking).

N.B. Bacon flavour crisps/chips don't contain any bacon so they must be Halal? They have never been near a pig. Always confused me because if you cook it properly pig meat can be part of a balanced and healthy diet.

A translation would be a one hard job. Religion, language & literature are not my major, hence the English you see me use is self taught. The Quran is 600 pages, after all.

I left the profiting from selling the Quran to the swarms of ignorant Muslims, who clearly missed this verse :

(Sura 3 Verse 77 )   Indeed, those who exchange the covenant of Allah and their [own] oaths for a small price will have no share in the Hereafter, and Allah will not speak to them or look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them; and they will have a painful punishment. 

It should be offered for free. Profiting from it is something I condemn.
And I don't quite understand what you meant by saying "You don't have to have sex with Saudi establishment figures to make millions from Quran."

Anyhow, I don't like to judge, but Estes seems like a smart businessman. He knew how to make millions, religion was the bridge he chose. I'm not judging his belief, but some things he's saying are pretty weird for a "salafi". I also can't get what Twelvers have to do with Estes. I have no info on Jafari Shia, I will read about them though.

As for Nimr, killing him was a mistake. Saudi Arabia is digging its own grave by this. 

As for pork, it's prohibited through a very clear verse, so no, I believe that it's totally forbidden to be consumed. 

I tend to see my meals as a black/white thingy : it either has pig, or doesn't have pig.  You complicate things, ummm I think it's pretty easy to decide if something has pork in it or not. 

WOF

there's no danger of somebody getting drunk & run over a group of kids with a Jeep in paradise, that's my theory why it's completely allowed in heaven with no regulation.