Free will

[dyresand]

So get this god is all knowing he knew humanity would fall he knows what everyone at any given point and time would be doing 
something. so even if we wanted to live a "sinless" life it would be purely impossible. Since god would know our actions a head of time
that being said free will is just a illusion and were all drones. Free will if a god existed the chirstian god it simply doesn't exist only 
the illusion of free will does.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Free will is real.
People confuse this by thinking since humans are incapable of doing something out of their boundaries of possible set of actions, they have no free will.

This is the analogical equivalent of saying that a ball inside a fence have no freedom of movement.

[dyresand]

Free will is real.
People confuse this by thinking since humans are incapable of doing something out of their boundaries of possible set of actions, they have no free will.

This is the analogical equivalent of saying that a ball inside a fence have no freedom of movement.

All i am saying is if a god existed and knew everything we have no free will we just have the illusion of free will.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Totally.
I've yet to see an actual argument that supports the notion of a God that is all knowing and humans possessing free will.

[Little lunch]

Free will is real.
People confuse this by thinking since humans are incapable of doing something out of their boundaries of possible set of actions, they have no free will.

This is the analogical equivalent of saying that a ball inside a fence have no freedom of movement.

No, you're confused, which is obvious by your statement, as to what some of the people here believe about free will.
It is within the boundaries of the possible set of actions that people still have no choice.
It is an illusion due to the complexity of choices within our range.
Even if time cannot be reversed, the idea still proves useful in the fact that there is no theory that seems to disprove that a person could change their mind about what to do next if they were rewound over and over.
A ball inside a fence doesn't disprove it.

[robvalue]

Yup, if it's possible to know what I will do before I do it, then I cannot choose to do anything else. I don't know how so many people can so easily believe contradictory statements. If God is outside of our timeline, then the question becomes, "did he know all what all my actions would be before he started our timeline"? If yes, I don't have genuine choices to make. He has fashioned my whole life in advance.

It would be far more reasonable to say God cannot know what I'm going to do because that is logically impossible (assuming I do actually have a genuine choice to make). Just like he can't make a rock he can't lift; God is governed by logic. Logic is God, really.

But people are uncomfortable with that concession, so they choose both sides at once even though it makes their God logically inconsistent. Since it's not real and never shows up to be analysed, they can carry on believing things about it that don't make sense.

[Excited Penguin]

Free will as described by most people is an incomprehensible idea that bears no known relationship to reality. Just like God. Inasmuch as it does make sense, it actually describes something else then you would expect it to, something trivial - such as the mere fact that an individual is a complex system that behaves in a particular way and that it is distinct from other similar entities.

[robvalue]

I agree, it's so ill-defined as to be meaningless. It's not scientific at all. It's not many rungs above a "soul".

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The fact that we have yet another Free Will thread should be taken as good evidence that free will does not exist - people don't seem to be able to stop themselves talking about it.

Boru

[dyresand]

That being said Adam and Eve essentially had no free will to begin with. Even after eating the from the tree of knowledge
they were still drones like the rest of the people in the bible. That is why in the bible god pretty much knew the pharaoh would
let the jews go and stops him.