Was Hitler a Christian?

[Alex K]

The difference between Austria and Germany is largely irrelevant here, GC. Just 18 years before Hitler was born, there wasn't even a proper country of Germany, much of Europe was a patchwork of innumerable duchies and small kingdoms and what have you.

[drfuzzy]

Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Never far from the lips of a Christian who's been confronted with Hitler's Christianity.


The difference between Christians and doctors is that there's a pretty standard set of hoops one must jump through to be  considered a doctor, whereas no two Christians agree on what makes somebody a "True Christian." When you guys get an actual consensus on what makes a True Christian, please let everyone know so us outsiders can tell who's real and who isn't. Until then, a Christian is just somebody who believes in Jesus, and if somebody voluntarily says they believe in and worship Jesus, there's really no reason for me to doubt that.


Also, you do realize Austria is a Germanic country, right? Their official language is actually German.  Besides, we call citizens who weren't born here Americans, don't we?

 Well I guess America has expanded tremendously, we can claim all English speaking countries according to your lame idea. Also Austria has self rule, that means they are a separate country. Also we do not allow anyone that to be president of this country that wasn't born hear.

These words are directly from Jesus' Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'

If I have to explain to you what this means and how it counters your argument completely then we have nothing else to say or I don't anyhow, it doesn't take a very intelligent person to understand the truth of those verses.

GC

They're verses from the wholly babble.  They can't prove anything.  They're from a work of fiction.  It has exactly as much importance as “For the time will soon come when Hobbits will shape the fortunes of all.”

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hitler was naturalized a German citizen. He is indeed German.

Can't blame GC for wanting to deny the truth, but I'm pretty sure the penalty for false witness is damnation. Looks like he's coming to Hell soon.

[Minimalist]

The difference between Austria and Germany is largely irrelevant here, GC. Just 18 years before Hitler was born, there wasn't even a proper country of Germany, much of Europe was a patchwork of innumerable duchies and small kingdoms and what have you.

No fair presenting facts.  G-C hates facts!

[Redbeard The Pink]

 Well I guess America has expanded tremendously, we can claim all English speaking countries according to your lame idea. Also Austria has self rule, that means they are a separate country. Also we do not allow anyone that to be president of this country that wasn't born hear.

These words are directly from Jesus' Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'

If I have to explain to you what this means and how it counters your argument completely then we have nothing else to say or I don't anyhow, it doesn't take a very intelligent person to understand the truth of those verses.

GC

Like Alex said, Hitler was growing up and coming to power in the fallout from WWI. Germany had been a pretty big empire and was in the process of falling apart, and Austria was one of the countries that began to emerge from that (if memory serves, that is...it's been a while since I read the history). Many of those old Germanic countries have vaguely German language and culture because at one time they literally were Germany. Sure, they're sovereign nations now, but "German" was a much more loosey goosey term during the time we're talking about.


Besides, Hitler was still German by way of citizenship, which means he was German. What we do in America concerning the presidency and his birth has virtually nothing to do with what was going on in Nazi Germany during WWII.


I'm aware of that verse in Matthew, and it does not solve your problem. It essentially states that even if a person says they're a Christian and does the works of a Christian, they're not a "True Christian" unless they're "doing God's will."


This leaves you with the exact same problem as before. No two Christians can agree on God's will, which is why you have thousands of denominations with millions of churches with billions of people all with wildly differing opinions on what God's will actually is, even though they're all using more or less the same book.


This gets us no closer to a practical way to tell who is a True Christian and who isn't. Anytime the Christians disagree, they all point at each other and call each other false. Because we have no reliable, consistent way of determining what God's will is (and apparently neither do his followers), this passage in Matthew is pretty much useless to everyone but God himself, if indeed he did exist.


I do agree with you on one thing, though...it doesn't take much intelligence to be convinced that the Bible is true.

[Alex K]

Many of those old Germanic countries have vaguely German language and culture because at one time they literally were Germany.

One could call what Austrians speak "vaguely German" for shits and giggles, but it really is just regular German in the Bavarian dialect group (with the exception of the state Vorarlberg, which has an Alemannic German dialect). They have some different words they use, but I'd say the average language difference between the two countries - if speakers try to speak their respective varieties of standard German - is rather like between the US and England.

[LastPoet]

 Well I guess America has expanded tremendously, we can claim all English speaking countries according to your lame idea. Also Austria has self rule, that means they are a separate country. Also we do not allow anyone that to be president of this country that wasn't born hear.

These words are directly from Jesus' Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'

If I have to explain to you what this means and how it counters your argument completely then we have nothing else to say or I don't anyhow, it doesn't take a very intelligent person to understand the truth of those verses.

GC

Like Alex said, Hitler was growing up and coming to power in the fallout from WWI. Germany had been a pretty big empire and was in the  process of falling apart, and Austria was one of the countries that began to emerge from that (if memory serves, that is...it's been a while since I read the history). Many of those old Germanic countries have vaguely German language and culture because at one time they literally were Germany. Sure, they're sovereign nations now, but "German" was a much more loosey goosey term during the time we're talking about.


Besides, Hitler was still German by way of citizenship, which means he was German. What we do in America concerning  the presidency and his birth has virtually nothing to do with what was going on in Nazi Germany during WWII.


I'm aware of that verse in Matthew, and it does not solve your problem. It essentially states that even if a person says they're a Christian and does the works of a Christian, they're not a "True Christian" unless they're "doing God's will."


This leaves you with the exact same problem as before. No two Christians can agree on God's will, which is why you have thousands of denominations with millions of churches with billions of people all with wildly differing opinions on what God's will actually is, even though they're all using more or less the same book.


This gets us no closer to a practical way to tell who is a True Christian and who isn't. Anytime the Christians disagree, they all point at each other and call each other false. Because we have no reliable, consistent way of determining what God's will is (and apparently neither do his followers), this passage in Matthew is pretty much useless to everyone but God himself, if indeed he did exist.


I do agree with you on one thing, though...it doesn't take much intelligence to be convinced that the Bible is true.

While I agree with much of what you say, your use of font colour regards little for the effort people make to read what ypu post. I get it, makes you feel an original guy. Congrats, you are really original. Have you tried to use big font? Makes your opinions 9000x more important...

*shakes head*

[Alex K]

You're late to the game, LP. I think we sufficiently discussed this last year.

[Redbeard The Pink]

Many of those old Germanic countries have vaguely German language and culture because at one time they literally were Germany.

One could call what Austrians speak "vaguely German" for shits and giggles, but it really is just regular German in the Bavarian dialect group (with the exception of the state Vorarlberg, which has an alemannic German dialect). They have some different words they use, but I'd say the language difference between the two countries is rather like between the US and England.

Yeah, the language is pretty much the same. I was referring more to the culture with that "vaguely" bit. The German Empire was a big place, and with big nations like that you tend to wind up with a bunch of little distinctive groups that usually still have things in common with the whole because of the influence of the ruling group.

[abaris]

One could call what Austrians speak "vaguely German" for shits and giggles, but it really is just regular German in the Bavarian dialect group (with the exception of the state Vorarlberg, which has an Alemannic German dialect). They have some different words they use, but I'd say the average language difference between the two countries - if speakers try to speak their respective varieties of standard German - is rather like between the US and England.

And even that is omitting all the different german dialects. Or would you say, you don't have any difficulties understanding someone speaking "Plattdeutsch", a Saxon or someone from Cologne? If they don't make any effort to be understood, that is.

Just as with Germany, there isn't one Austrian language or dialect. There are at least 9 variations, probably even more, given that there are even different dialects in different districts of Vienna.