Question?

[PETE_ROSE]

I'm still here!  Got a little busy at work tonight.  Cannot help but notice some are getting hung up dissecting my question about what is truth and such.  I attempted to remove all ambiguity and pose the question flatly.   I often see reasoning to the effect that many dismiss Christianity due to lack of evidence.   I'm questioning who would follow and worship Christ if they knew Christianity and what it purports to be true.

(emphasis is mine)

Christianity purports a gawd that orders atrocities and/or stands by while atrocities are committed in it's name. My morality would not allow me to worship a gawd like that.

If the gawd of the buy-bull were the leader of a nation in the modern world, it would be a dictator to make Saddam look like a saint. Millions would die under it's "leadership," any nation within it's reach would be invaded and it's people brutally murdered and it would eventually be put down like a rabid dog.

On this I would like to point out that God had a very different vision for the world at it's creation. Specifically when he rested and said that it is good. It was not until after the fall of man that the world descended into what it has become. Most of what people object to in the bible stems from the events that have taken place since; whereabouts He has and is providing a path to our reconciliation to Him.

[Ravenshire]

(emphasis is mine)

Christianity purports a gawd that orders atrocities and/or stands by while atrocities are committed in it's name. My morality would not allow me to worship a gawd like that.

If the gawd of the buy-bull were the leader of a nation in the modern world, it would be a dictator to make Saddam look like a saint. Millions would die under it's "leadership," any nation within it's reach would be invaded and it's people brutally murdered and it would eventually be put down like a rabid dog.

On this I would like to point out that God had a very different vision for the world at it's creation.  Specifically when he rested and said that it is good.  It was not until after the fall of man that the world descended into what it has become.  Most of what people object to in the bible stems from the events that have taken place since; whereabouts He has and is providing a path to our reconciliation to Him.

(emphasis is mine)

In other words, it's really all our fault.

Bullshit!

An omniscient, omnipotent gawd (as purported by the buy-bull) would have been able to see what would become of it's creation, enabling it to plan accordingly to avoid the atrocities. In plain words, your buy-bull puts forth the claim that gawd created us knowing that we would fall. Knowing that it would have to order, even commit atrocities and or/ stand by and watch them committed in it's name.

My morality is greater than that of buy-bull gawd in the simple fact that if I witnessed a rape/murder/etc... I would try to stop it. Buy-bull gawd never does.

[PETE_ROSE]

On this I would like to point out that God had a very different vision for the world at it's creation.  Specifically when he rested and said that it is good.  It was not until after the fall of man that the world descended into what it has become.  Most of what people object to in the bible stems from the events that have taken place since; whereabouts He has and is providing a path to our reconciliation to Him.

(emphasis is mine)

In other words, it's really all our fault.

Bullshit!

An omniscient, omnipotent gawd (as purported by the buy-bull) would have been able to see what would become of it's creation, enabling it to plan accordingly to avoid the atrocities. In plain words, your buy-bull puts forth the claim that gawd created us knowing that we would fall. Knowing that it would have to order, even commit atrocities and or/ stand by and watch them committed in it's name.

My morality is greater than that of buy-bull gawd in the simple fact that if I witnessed a rape/murder/etc... I would try to stop it. Buy-bull gawd never does.

I concur that He did know man would fall; but man did have help in that. I do not wish to enter into the free will rabbit hole but to have love and a relationship there must be free will and a choice. So yes, He did know, yet provided a way to reconcile us to Him in the end.

To say your morality is greater I would disagree as you lack a standard to compare that to because all perceived humanistic morality is subjective.

You said that you would stop a rape/murder therefore you are more moral than God? I wouldn't lift a finger to stop you from murdering a pedophile.

Nearly everyone here complains that God does not stop evil, murder, suffering in the world. Yet they cannot wait to condemn Him for eliminating an immoral and evil people from the land in the Old Testament. We cannot have it both ways.

[Minimalist]

I'm genuinely curious because you seem like a reasonably intelligent person.  How can you believe such utter shit?

[PETE_ROSE]

A compliment from Minimalist! I'm putting a gold star on the calendar!!!

[Minimalist]

Note the word "seem."  Much depends on your answer.

[PETE_ROSE]

I'm genuinely curious because you seem like a reasonably intelligent person.  How can you believe such utter shit?

Truly it was a long road. It started with the typical questions about life, death.

In my college studies the origin of the universe and the best explanation of its design and that it has a beginning point to "a" God.

From there I examined most all of the major religions: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and a few others. At its core Christianity is unique in what is required so to speak. The bar is set very low, where as in other religions there is a requirement of works and accomplishments to be met.

I share nearly all of the objections and hard truths that everyone here has with religion, the Old Testament, science, the list is long. However, when taken as a whole, even the really brutal stuff, I honesty find truth in the bible and in Christ's words.

From there it was a matter of now I believe, do I choose to accept it, the good, the bad, the really hard stuff that I don't agree with, or reject it and go about life. It is very difficult to ignore something that holds such eternal ramifications without giving it serious consideration.

If I had answered no I do think life would have been easier, but not better. More gratification but less satisfaction and sense of worth.

[PETE_ROSE]

Note the word "seem."  Much depends on your answer.

I wouldn't characterize myself as a religious nut. Well traveled, educated, financially successful, and rational by most standards I believe. But then again, most all of us hold ourselves in high regard.

I sure hope I measure up to your expectations in my response.

[Nihilist Virus]

Quid pro quo, I'll answer yours if you answer mine:

Would you remain a Christian if you woke up one day and literally all other humans on earth stopped believing in Christianity?  Churches were shutting down, preachers with no professional skills started working at McDonald's, etc.  Just you in the faith.  Will you continue?

My faith is not based on what any person walking this planet believes in or doesn't.  I dislike most churches and organized religion and wouldn't mind seeing many close their doors.  

However, in the spirit of what I think the intent of the question is and what others have posed, if I saw irrefutable evidence such as Odin's return for the final battle would I cast aside Christianity and grind my axes, yes.  

But it would have to be irrefutable tangible proof that deeply satisfied me.  Not the common I found a contradiction with science and the bible, therefore I can summarily discount Christianity.  These instances are always an opinion. I would add there are very smart people that have examined the same science and come to a different conclusion.

Thank you for your honesty.

My answer is that I would not worship Yahweh because I have given my heart to blasphemy.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll add my contribution.


If I was convinced that the Christian god does indeed exist, I would have no choice in believing in him.

But no, I would not worship or serve him.

First of all, any being that requires me to worship and served him, or face eternal punishment, does not deserve
either.

Second, if his actions, laws and proclamations, as depicted in the Bible, are accurate representations of this god, he is a moral monster, and definitely does not deserve worship.

I can't think of a much worse universe, than one where the Christian god actually existed.

What you've considered deserving of worship - within the context of this hypothetical - means nada!

lol, so much for Free Will®, then.