How do we grow?

[SleepingDemon]

Religion isn't the root of all evil, it just impedes process, it always has. While I admit that pre-monotheistic religions made massive strides in astronomy. But this progress was slowed to a crawl, forcing people like Galileo and Newton to restrict their discoveries to fit within the confines of religious doctrine. Honestly if we hadn't been arguing over the morality of stem cell research, how far along would that field would be now? If all our greatest minds could focus on progress and not defend themselves against absurdly zealous believers, we could do the extraordinary at a steady pace, not one uphill.

[Cinjin]

Perhaps the problem is less religion and more the evil which religions seek to eradicate. Do you think that religion is the root of evil?

The root of evil is and always has been the human heart. Obviously, not the biological human heart, but I'm guessing you knew what I meant.
With regards to the role religion plays in that - well, I would agree with chuck in his followup post to your own.

[Whirling Moat]

Peace....

Religion is not the root of all evil, but it is an indispensible promoter, facilitator, and protector of many of the worst and most damaging ones.

Even if this point was conceded, it would do nothing to address why there is Evil and some its children such as lust, greed, selfishness, vanity, et al. Religion seems to give cover to the ambition of those who arre truly under the power of the aforementioned, howebver without religion it would not be difficult to find other forms of cover.

It is true that humanity is at the precipice of great acheivement, however, as we climb higher the chasm leading to the abyss seems to open wider. To think that religion and not Evil is to blame for this is both naive and dangerous. Is the true cause really that difficult to miss? In the ancient world there have been metropolitan areas wherein all of the major religions were represented and there was relative peace. However, nowhere in world is there ever peace where resources are all under the control of an unjust few. It should be very simple to see that it is a corruption of religion and control of the gullible masses which leads to unrest whoich in turn stifles the security of the world. All of this results from intentional acts of those in power vying with one another for supremacy...They are using people and religion to meet other ends...

So give credit where credit is due.


Whirling Moat

[Eudaimonia]

Peace....

Religion is not the root of all evil, but it is an indispensible promoter, facilitator, and protector of many of the worst and most damaging ones.

Even if this point was conceded, it would do nothing to address why there is Evil and some its children such as lust, greed, selfishness, vanity, et al. Religion seems to give cover to the ambition of those who arre truly under the power of the aforementioned, howebver without religion it would not be difficult to find other forms of cover.

The point should be conceded .. then the importance acknowledged.. Before you address the roots of evil.. *sigh*.. You should address its protector.. So please go to theists sites and tell them to stop making evil fair seeming...

If it gives evil cover then it is the vanguard of peace prevention and should be eradicated..

Without religion.. well.. why you do some brainstorming.. What insitutions/elements in society replace religion in terms of aiding the mind towards better character...

*think*

---

Doesn't a fatalistic mindset work against the probability that humanity can achieve progress? It takes as many minds to work for as it does against progress correct?

therein lies the problem Eudaimonia ... absense of religion and superstition is not considered "progress" to many.

To a LOT of fundamentalist conservatives of Christianity and Islam, the phrase "we have made a lot of progress" is an outright fabrication of the secular world. We have proven that all the technology in the world will not change the mindset of BILLIONS of people who have been taught their whole lives to fear the supernatural power of god and that anything that takes away from that (ie. technology) is evil and must be denied. On a global scale - we are screwed. I don't believe there is a way to irradicate religion and superstition without letting them run their course. This is of course the sad part because I believe religion will inevitably lead to total destruction. I think only when we come back from the precipice of utter annihalation will human kind realize the extreme danger of our own silly beliefs.

The problem is that the minds that "work for", as you say, are far far outnumbered by the minds that "work against".
My above post is not wishful thinking. I will continue to live a rational and logical life in the hopes that I can perhaps lead by example, but that doesn't mean that I can't see the truth or that I'm going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that humanity has it all figured out. Overall, I think the world is still barbaric with only beacons of enlightenment to show what could be possible. We're not there yet ... and it's going to be awhile.

I understand.. We must remain sober about reality..

but.. I'm still hopeful... :-)

[Whirling Moat]

Peace...

The point should be conceded .. then the importance acknowledged.. Before you address the roots of evil.. *sigh*.. You should address its protector.. So please go to theists sites and tell them to stop making evil fair seeming...

That is not the most economical or efficient way to deal with the problem. An approach which seeks to blame a veneer would serve nothing but the lusts of those who self righteously enjoy watching others suffer persecution and slaughter. The rule of thumb is to deal with the head. If an organization is ruled by evil, find the source and destroy it.

Find the trouble maker...

If it gives evil cover then it is the vanguard of peace prevention and should be eradicated..

Once again..this approach is careless and sloppy. How many are you willing to kill in the name of this crusade against religion?

Without religion.. well.. why you do some brainstorming.. What insitutions/elements in society replace religion in terms of aiding the mind towards better character...

Aligning people with purpose is the only way to do this.

*think*

Join me in this exercise...

don't give me the happy ending without providing the process..If religious leaders universally agreed to help liberate their following from belief what would be step #1, what would the likely aftermath be?


Whirling Moat

[Cinjin]

Peace...

If it gives evil cover then it is the vanguard of peace prevention and should be eradicated..

Once again..this approach is careless and sloppy. How many are you willing to kill in the name of this crusade against religion?

whoa -- nobody said anything about killing anybody. Muslims and Christians are the ones who kill people in the name of a cause.
We are about eradication through enlightenment and education.

It is very telling though that a Christian would think that killing a problem away is a legitimate way to get rif of unwanted problems.

[prayforme]

I don't think we'll ever completely outgrow religion. I think society will become more secular over time (gradually) but it doesn't take much for religion to adapt to change. Eventually, new ones will form as the old ones adapt or die out. The more things change the more they stay the same.

I think religious beliefs will continue to become more "personal" in nature and perhaps a little less centric to one's lifestyle. In some ways, it's already happening today.

[Justtristo]

To a LOT of fundamentalist conservatives of Christianity and Islam, the phrase "we have made a lot of progress" is an outright fabrication of the secular world.

Indeed for example YEC organizations 'theorize' that humanity has deteriorated since "the fall" and a lot of "bible believing" Christians serious believe society Jesus is going to come back and a "new heavens and earth" replace this world or universe.

However I am very optimistic for the future of human civilization as long as we drain the poison of religion and superstition from the body.

[Whirling Moat]

Peace...

Religion isn't the root of all evil, it just impedes process, it always has. While I admit that pre-monotheistic religions made massive strides in astronomy. But this progress was slowed to a crawl, forcing people like Galileo and Newton to restrict their discoveries to fit within the confines of religious doctrine. Honestly if we hadn't been arguing over the morality of stem cell research, how far along would that field would be now? If all our greatest minds could focus on progress and not defend themselves against absurdly zealous believers, we could do the extraordinary at a steady pace, not one uphill.

Albert Einstein once said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind..".

Scientifc achievement is fueled by the idealism of religion. Science cannot afford to divorce religion or as some would have it "eradicate" religion altogether...


Whirling Moat

[Autumnlicious]

Scientifc achievement is fueled by the idealism of religion. Science cannot afford to divorce religion or as some would have it "eradicate" religion altogether...

Citation needed. Or are we simply stringing together words now?