Another Circumcision thread

[The Grand Nudger]

So, you can see the obvious "pro" above for a girl who likes it rough.  

[Catholic_Lady]

Yes, it is simpler earlier on. But I never said this is some sort of rule of thumb that should apply to everything across the board. I was speaking in the context of a circumcising, which is a very different type of procedure than surgery. When you're talking about a different procedure, especially a major surgery to remove a part of your organ from inside your body, it changes the context. Should parents legally have the right to make the choice to circumcise their son? In my opinion, yes. Should they have the right to other, more drastic medical procedures for preventative type reasons? I don't know. I guess it would depend on a lot. But just because I think one should be legal (circumcision) doesn't mean I think they all should be.

I'm about to get TMI for some of you here.

All of you should know by now that I am transgender. I was circumcised at birth whether I wanted it or not. This introduces things to surgery that I shouldn't have had to think about. Less material to work with means more trouble.

Should my parents have had that legal right to make that choice for me?

As I have already answered in the exact quote you posted:

Should parents legally have the right to make the choice to circumcise their son? In my opinion, yes.

Now to address your situation, I am sure there are times when later on parents realize that for reasons they could never have seen coming, it would have been better to take a different path than the one they chose at the time. And that seems to be the case with your parents. But I'm sure it never crossed their minds at the time that you'd want to get sex reassignment surgery or that no foreskin could make it harder to do this. Just as I'm sure the parents of old men who end up having urinary infections all the time and have to go through a circumcision on their fully grown penises, also never saw coming that their decision not to circumcise may not have been the best one for that particular son. Parents do what they think is best for their children. Sometimes it works out for the better, and sometimes it doesn't. But that's the case with all things. When it comes to circumcision, I think parents should have the legal right to do what they truly think will be best and most beneficial for their sons.

[The Grand Nudger]

So you're going to tell me that there can never be complications that arise with foreskin? Phimosis isn't a thing? Paraphimosis? I'm not "assuming" there are benefits to circumcision, I know there are. I "assumed" you knew them. Are they enough to warrant the operation by themselves? Up to the parent but probably not.

What -I;m- telling you......as an uncut man.... who therefore has the choice to make...is that I choose to keep my foreskin.  That -I- think it's horrible.  I will not have it done.  That parents -do this- to their children means that I have a choice that they don't...and I'm probably not the only person who would choose to keep his pecker intact if they had the choice.  

I'd be willing to bet you would choose to keep your foreskin too, had you grown up with it.  You would think it looks good, you would think it feels good...you'd wash your dick.  You would see it's hypothetical mutilation as a clear cut example of wrong having been done to you.

You know there are benefits to a clean dick, I can't stress this enough.  Phimosis would warrant a procedure...but I don't have phimosis.  You can mitigate your risk of carpal tunnel by cutting your arm off as well......but just think, for a moment, how far you had to stretch yourself (damn I;m on fire today) to find a demonstrable "benefit"...to circumcision of an infant in order to justify your indifference towards a practice that's carried out as routine in hospitals and isn;t seen as anything other than horrificly painful and traumatizing in addition to being permanently damaging... by the very people who do it. They just do it because it's something we do, it's optional and we ask for it, it's legal..we'd do it in shitty conditions if they didn't....and besides, the little fucker isn't going to remember.

It's a mercy that we don't remember it, and that in and of itself ought to be able to propel you out of your indifference, even if it doesn't change your mind about it. Because it;s not as if it has to be done, or will do itself. We're doing it, to infants, for "reasons".....like phimosis.

[Jesster]

As I have already answered in the exact quote you posted:

Should parents legally have the right to make the choice to circumcise their son? In my opinion, yes.

Now to address your situation, I am sure there are times when later on parents realize that for reasons they could never have seen coming, it would have been better to take a different path than the one they chose at the time. And that seems to be the case with your parents. But I'm sure it never crossed their minds at the time that you'd want to get sex reassignment surgery or that no foreskin could make it harder to do this. Just as I'm sure the parents of old men who end up having urinary infections all the time and have to go through a circumcision on their fully grown penises, also never saw coming that their decision not to circumcise may not have been the best one for that particular son. Parents do what they think is best for their children. Sometimes it works out for the better, and sometimes it doesn't. But that's the case with all things. When it comes to circumcision, I think parents should have the legal right to do what they truly think will be best and most beneficial for their sons.

So it's okay, even if later circumstances from the irreversible procedure make things worse? The problem with giving parents the choice here is that they cannot possibly predict how this will affect their child later on. Of course they didn't know. I don't blame my parents for this at all. I am mad because they were given the choice.

For your benefit, I hope this kind of choice for your children never comes back on you.

[Aegon]

So you're going to tell me that there can never be complications that arise with foreskin? Phimosis isn't a thing? Paraphimosis? I'm not "assuming" there are benefits to circumcision, I know there are. I "assumed" you knew them. Are they enough to warrant the operation by themselves? Up to the parent but probably not.

What -I;m- telling you......as an uncut man.... who therefore has the choice to make...is that I choose to keep my foreskin.  That -I- think it's horrible.  I will not have it done.  That parents -do this- to their children means that I have a choice that they don't...and I'm probably not the only person who would choose to keep his pecker intact if they had the choice.  

I'd be willing to bet you would choose to keep your foreskin too, had you grown up with it.  You would think it looks good, you would think it feels good...you'd wash your dick.  You would see it's hypothetical mutilation as a clear cut example of wrong having been done to you.

You know there are benefits to a clean dick, I can't stress this enough.  Phimosis would warrant a procedure...but I don't have phimosis.  You can mitigate your risk of carpal tunnel by cutting your hand off as well......but just think, for a moment, how far you had to stretch yourself (damn I;m on fire today) to find a demonstrable "benefit"...to circumcision of an infant.

Do you honestly believe your foreskin is as important as your hands?

And, again, you don't have to stretch yourself that far to find the benefits... decreased risk of UTIs, STDs, and penile cancer, as well as (obviously) zero risk of phimosis. I admitted that the benefits probably do not warrant the surgery, but stop pretending they don't exist.

in order to justify your indifference towards a practice that's carried out as routine in hospitals and isn;t seen as anything other than horrificly painful and traumatizing in addition to being permanently damaging... by the very people who do it. They just do it because it's something we do, it's optional and we ask for it, it's legal..we'd do it in shitty conditions if they didn't....and besides, the little fucker isn't going to remember.

It's a mercy that we don't remember it, and that in and of itself ought to be able to propel you out of your indifference, even if it doesn't change your mind about it. Because it;s not as if it has to be done, or will do itself. We're doing it, to infants.

There you go, losing me again talking about how much we're "traumatizing" babies with this operation. I asked you this before: where's the psychological damage I suffered on that terrible day?

[Arkilogue]

From Wiki:

Circumcision has been suggested to affect semen displacement. Circumcision causes the coronal ridge to be more pronounced, and it has been hypothesized that this could enhance semen displacement. This is supported by females' reports of sexual intercourse with circumcised males. Females report that their vaginal secretions diminish as intercourse with a circumcised male progresses, and that circumcised males thrust more deeply. It has therefore been suggested that the more pronounced coronal ridge, combined with the deeper thrusting, causes the vaginal secretions of the female to be displaced in the same way as rival sperm can be

Well that's absolutely ridonkulous! It be like designing a piston to take the lubricating oil out of the engine with every stroke!

[RobertE]

I'll make it short and sweet. The choice of being circumcised needs to be done by the child himself (or in Islam by both the boy and girl) and not by the parents. We know that circumcision is everyday practice amongst the Jewish people and the single-largest group; Muslims. However, I feel that the parents are pushed into it either because it is part of their culture or religious practice or, they are being scaremongered through magazine articles about infected uncut (to borrow rythyms saying) peens. As far as I'm concerned, being cut doesn't equal clean. I mean, if you have watched some porn movies, there are quite a few 'Uncut" men who have been infected or have died whilst indulging in the porn industry. Of course, it could have been outside of his place of work, but again, smashing the back doors of 3 women at the same time whilst cut doesn't do anyone any favours. Back to the point, let the child decide, just like we should about religion or politics.

[RobertE]

So you're going to tell me that there can never be complications that arise with foreskin? Phimosis isn't a thing? Paraphimosis? I'm not "assuming" there are benefits to circumcision, I know there are. I "assumed" you knew them. Are they enough to warrant the operation by themselves? Up to the parent but probably not.

What -I;m- telling you......as an uncut man.... who therefore has the choice to make...is that I choose to keep my foreskin.  That -I- think it's horrible.  I will not have it done.  That parents -do this- to their children means that I have a choice that they don't...and I'm probably not the only person who would choose to keep his pecker intact if they had the choice.  

I'd be willing to bet you would choose to keep your foreskin too, had you grown up with it.  You would think it looks good, you would think it feels good...you'd wash your dick.  You would see it's hypothetical mutilation as a clear cut example of wrong having been done to you.

You know there are benefits to a clean dick, I can't stress this enough.  Phimosis would warrant a procedure...but I don't have phimosis.  You can mitigate your risk of carpal tunnel by cutting your arm off as well......but just think, for a moment, how far you had to stretch yourself (damn I;m on fire today) to find a demonstrable "benefit"...to circumcision of an infant in order to justify your indifference towards a practice that's carried out as routine in hospitals and isn;t seen as anything other than horrificly painful and traumatizing in addition to being permanently damaging... by the very people who do it.  They just do it because it's something we do, it's optional and we ask for it, it's legal..we'd do it in shitty conditions if they didn't....and besides, the little fucker isn't going to remember.

It's a mercy that we don't remember it, and that in and of itself ought to be able to propel you out of your indifference, even if it doesn't change your mind about it.  Because it;s not as if it has to be done, or will do itself.  We're doing it, to infants, for "reasons".....like phimosis.

Bold is mine.

Well, I have Ulna tunnel syndrome, which speaks volumes......   Also I am ambidextrous so, if ever I break one of my wrists.......

[The Grand Nudger]

From Wiki:

Circumcision has been suggested to affect semen displacement. Circumcision causes the coronal ridge to be more pronounced, and it has been hypothesized that this could enhance semen displacement. This is supported by females' reports of sexual intercourse with circumcised males. Females report that their vaginal secretions diminish as intercourse with a circumcised male progresses, and that circumcised males thrust more deeply. It has therefore been suggested that the more pronounced coronal ridge, combined with the deeper thrusting, causes the vaginal secretions of the female to be displaced in the same way as rival sperm can be

Well that's absolutely ridonkulous! It be like designing a piston to take the lubricating oil out of the engine with every stroke!  

Such are the sorrows of not having been designed in the first place.  

[vorlon13]

From Wiki:

Circumcision has been suggested to affect semen displacement. Circumcision causes the coronal ridge to be more pronounced, and it has been hypothesized that this could enhance semen displacement. This is supported by females' reports of sexual intercourse with circumcised males. Females report that their vaginal secretions diminish as intercourse with a circumcised male progresses, and that circumcised males thrust more deeply. It has therefore been suggested that the more pronounced coronal ridge, combined with the deeper thrusting, causes the vaginal secretions of the female to be displaced in the same way as rival sperm can be

Well that's absolutely ridonkulous! It be like designing a piston to take the lubricating oil out of the engine with every stroke!  

Would you rather be a piston than a cylinder bore ?