Another Circumcision thread

[GrandizerII]

For the record I'd never have a son circumcised.  Didn't even like snipping Smokey's nuts.  

But in a world in which people are horrified by abortion but tolerate it in a civilized way, I'm willing to allow that the shoe may occasionally have to be on the other foot.

Again, abortion is a complicated matter. Even if we grant that fetuses are persons and/or have rights, abortion is not like circumcision where only the child is really affected by the decision of circumcision and no actual dilemma (i.e. conflict of rights) exists.

[The Grand Nudger]

For the record I'd never have a son circumcised.  Didn't even like snipping Smokey's nuts.  

But in a world in which people are horrified by abortion but tolerate it in a civilized way, I'm willing to allow that the shoe may occasionally have to be on the other foot.

Exactly.  So, when someone here in the states decides to perform some surgery on their infant daughter, it would be one of those occasions.  Or not.  The trouble right now, is that the shoe -is- on the other foot, and only the other foot. It's illegal, in fact, to put the shoe on any other foot.

The abortion issue has all it's own pitfalls, for sure..but the compelling interest as our courts see it are the rights of the female. We don't have to agree with abortion to understand that forcing women to carry to term is a gross infringement upon -their- rights. Who's right's would be infringed upon by making circumcision illegal? A religious parent, perhaps? There -is- no right to impose your religion upon another, particularly by means of cutting pieces of flesh away from a child. The rights of a person who has it done to a child because dicks are icky and unclean? That person is an idiot and has no such right. Who's left...what's left?

Some misguided sense of being culturally polite or sensitive to the strangeness of others? Of letting "the other guy/gal" get their way, sometimes...? Not sure that's applicable when knives and nonconsensual body modification is involved. Let them keep plastering roadsides with hellfire, let them scrub a dick raw to battle their phobia. Give their strangeness -that-...not this.

[BrokenQuill92]

Um all penises look weird. Frankly I'm glad I don't have to look at them anymore. Yay blindness!! Anyway... Maybe his dick smells funny or something. Sometimes when guys don't clean properly (which I think is often) they smell like bad cheese and old socks. And besides believe it or not guys, dick and cum isn't  the tastiest thing in the world.

Not listening.
Not listening.

Don't be a baby

[Foxaèr]

I'd say,

"Hey doctor, do the snip and make it quick,

He's young and won't remember a thing,

He'll have a beautiful, lovely dick,

And he can grow up to proudly sing,

Thank you, parents!"

[Aroura]

For the record I'd never have a son circumcised. Didn't even like snipping Smokey's nuts.

But in a world in which people are horrified by abortion but tolerate it in a civilized way, I'm willing to allow that the shoe may occasionally have to be on the other foot.

Abortion is a terrible thing we allow because the consequences of restricting it are worse.

There are no terrible consequences to leaving a kidsmall sex organs intact. Though, initially circumcision practices began to prevent what less knowledgable folk though was disease caused by masterbation and premarital sex, a fair trade if true. Turns out it wasn't true. So harm is done for no real personal or societal benefit. That is the real argument being made.

Abortion is clearly harmful, no one argues that it isnt, but as a society we have judged the benefits to be greater than the harm.

In short, apples and oranges.

[Catholic_Lady]

For the record I'd never have a son circumcised.  Didn't even like snipping Smokey's nuts.  

But in a world in which people are horrified by abortion but tolerate it in a civilized way, I'm willing to allow that the shoe may occasionally have to be on the other foot.

Again, abortion is a complicated matter. Even if we grant that fetuses are persons and/or have rights, abortion is not like circumcision where only the child is really affected by the decision of circumcision and no actual dilemma (i.e. conflict of rights) exists.

My son died at 23 weeks gestation. I can assure you he is/was a person.

[Foxaèr]

My son died at 23 weeks gestation. I can assure you he is/was a person.

I disagree, despite the obvious emotional attachment you had in carrying that fetus for twenty-three weeks.

I am providing you with what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

[BrokenQuill92]

My son died at 23 weeks gestation. I can assure you he is/was a person.

I disagree, despite the obvious emotional attachment you had in carrying that fetus for twenty-three weeks.

I am providing you with what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

Don't be cruel. And speaking as as a person born at twenty-four weeks, sentience for that period of gestation may be quite likely; though personally I've never viewed a human infant below four months of age as sentient. Babies seem to have real personalities and a wobbly sense of self by a few months old.

[Foxaèr]

Don't be cruel.

Honesty is often cruel. It is why I prefer the harsh truth to the comfortable lie.

[Excited Penguin]

Don't be cruel.

Honesty is often cruel.  It is why I prefer the harsh truth to the comfortable lie.

Your honesty is irrelevant. Your lack of expertise is relevant, however. You said it yourself, you're telling her what you think she needs to hear. So tell us which it is, already, do you have facts on your hands to disprove her notion that she carried a person inside her, or are you providing your subjective opinion on the matter?

And, Mal

---

Anyway, CL has been through enough with this. Let us be kind and avoid the subject. You're being a fucking idiot right now, lacking any substance or nuance whatsoever. You don't know what's good or bad for other people, so take a step back and be silent if you don't know what to do in these situations.

She may have raised the subject herself and introduced her emotions as an argument against abortion in a topic about circumcision, even though she was responding to someone else. That doesn't mean you should act like you can't see what a sensible subject is with someone.

---