Is Humanity Ready for First Contact?

[Excited Penguin]

Suppose there is a broader community of sentient life-forms who are remarkably advanced (socially and technologically). Do you think they would be interested in learning about humanity?  If you were in their shoes, then what would be your criteria for making first contact? What are your observations of humanity and does humanity meet your criteria?  From your perspective, is humanity ready for first contact?

Let me start off by congratulating you on starting a great conversation topic. I've been looking forward to you starting just such a one for quite some time now. You are a very educated and highly intelligent invidual and I'm glad to have the opportunity to exchange some ideas with you on a variety of things, not least of all the one you're introducing right now.

I think, if this hypothetical alien civilisation partakes even slightly in our wonderment about the universe, our search for our place in it and for an overarching meaning to our very existence on this plane, then yes, there's a very likely chance they would welcome such an educative opportunity as soon as one might present itself for them.

My criteria for what I would do in their stead are the following:

•      I would first devise a method for reliable and joint communication. This would be a key point, and not to be overlooked under any circumstances. Given failure to accomplish this, the whole project would have to be abandoned until significant progress on this one front would be (re-)established in lieu of pursuing what would surely become a diplomatic inter-civilisational fiasco absent this one most foundational component to the whole enterprise.
  
•      Then, I would concern myself with expressing my own civilisation's best intentions going forward in the most mutually agreeable and reassuring manner possible. A symbolic gesture of goodwill in the form of sharing some initially small amounts of beneficial technology and scientific progress with the corresponding scientific counterparts of the visited world would go a long way on achieving this, and it would have to be very carefully administered so as to maximize the alleviation of fears and minimize the apprehensive and hostile attitude that one might foresee on the part of the intended recipients of said gift.
  
•      From here on out, one can only imagine what the situation might call for. Certainly, diplomatic relationships would have to be formally established and nurtured with great care and the corresponding officianza of government(s) would have to be implicated in the process in order for them to have the opportunity to build on that crucial bond together with the interstellar guests and so that every party involved, on the side of the inhabitants of the Solar System( id est, -- one assumes the unchanged future location of our civilisation for the purpose of this discussion), gets the best deal being thrown on the table, whatever that deal might imply for their future, so long as it would be a conceptually good future that would conceivably have to be weaved.
  

Humanity might or might not meet the criteria for successfully pulling this off given the chance. I like its chances nevertheless, if only you allowed me to add a couple of centuries of advancement to its current state of affairs at the very least. So, then, I believe it is relatively ready, but I would prefer it if we made definite progress on at least some of the more dire issues that lie heavy on our collective conscience as a technologically enhanced species at this very moment in history by the time we will have been able to send ships for interstellar missions of finding out and connecting with fellow civilizations hiding among the ever elusive, but nevertheless promising and awe inducing stars decorating some future astronautical explorer's sights.

[vorlon13]

As for colonizing other galaxies, nuclear impulse propulsion is too slow. I'm not saying if we did fill up this galaxy we wouldn't want to do another, it's just that the technology to fill up a galaxy 100,000 lightyears across with handy places to stop and relax, refresh and refuel along the way isn't going to work very well on a nonstop flight of 2 million lightyears.

In the galaxy scenario, if flight times were limited to 1000 years, the task could still be accomplished as a multi-generation vessel at 0.10C would have a range of ~100 light years. At 0,10C, getting to the Andromeda galaxy is going to take 20 million years. That isn't feasible. Even building a single vessel for the 1000 year flight is quite a task. Dyson thought building the first one might take 400 years. I think subsequent vehicles would be built much faster. And realize, if every established colony built another vessel relatively quickly after becoming established, and also refurbed their own vessel, then you get into an exponentiation of how quickly the entire galaxy can be explored.

Don't think so much how fast an individual ship can travel in a straight line. Instead consider how fast the volume of explored galactic space can increase if the number of even relatively slow ships doing the exploring doubles every 500 - 1000 years.

I'm just looking at how a Darwinianaly inspired, technologically capable society can fill up a galaxy. It turns out it isn't insuperably difficult with technology humans developed 50 years ago.

And as for ETs that aren't Darwinianaly inspired, I guess I don't know what that would entail. I think Darwin and his ideas describe all successful lifeforms in the universe. Survival of the fittest is the defining trait of that which survives.

That it looks like humans are backsliding a bit (go watch the movie Idiocracy) doesn't mean the rest of our (possible) contenders are doing the same.

And a reminder, in all our galaxy, it just takes one civilization with what is now 50 year old earth technology and the will to employ it, to colonize our galaxy.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If the suppositions in the model are correct, that is.

[Whateverist]

I thought we'd already had first contact. Wasn't Mary contacted when God knocked her up? Or how about the time God teleported that guy Jonah into the belly of that whale? That was some major contact. All I know is we'd better improve our defenses before that Guy comes back.

[The Grand Nudger]

Imagine a species who live their entire lives inside a giant, space-going autotrophic whale.  They use shards of bone to jab it's spine from the inside,  steering it left or right, based upon charts they've scarred into the interior cavities of the creature....that their society has put together over years of drifting..ever since they evolved from the simple parasites from which they originate.  Their only goal is to keep the spacegoing whale alive, thus sustaining themselves, by guiding it on it's migratory path to the highest quality solar watering holes.

When we imagine aliens, we generally imagine nothing more than technologically advanced versions of ourselves. Our assumptions, in that regard, actually refer to our own contact with less advanced members of our own kind. We aren't imagining the future, or aliens. We're talking about human beings, and the past.

Let aliens be......alien? They may not need tech. They may not need anything from earth at all. They may be completely unprepared to handle -us-. Accidentally wandering into our field of view could be the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

[Anomalocaris]

As for colonizing other galaxies, nuclear impulse propulsion is too slow.  I'm not saying if we did fill up this galaxy we wouldn't want to do another, it's just that the technology to fill up a galaxy 100,000 lightyears across with handy places to stop and relax, refresh and refuel along the way isn't going to work very well on a nonstop flight of 2 million lightyears.

In the galaxy scenario, if flight times were limited to 1000 years, the task could still be accomplished as a multi-generation vessel at 0.10C would have a range of ~100 light years.  At 0,10C, getting to the Andromeda galaxy is going to take 20 million years.  That isn't feasible. Even building a single vessel for the 1000 year flight is quite a task.  Dyson thought building the first one might take 400 years.  I think subsequent vehicles would be built much faster.  And realize, if every established colony built another vessel relatively quickly after becoming established, and also refurbed their own vessel, then you get into an exponentiation of how quickly the entire galaxy can be explored.  

Don't think so much how fast an individual ship can travel in a straight line.  Instead consider how fast the volume of explored galactic space can increase if the number of even relatively slow ships doing the exploring doubles every 500 - 1000 years.

I'm just looking at how a Darwinianaly inspired, technologically capable society can fill up a galaxy.  It turns out it isn't insuperably difficult with technology humans developed 50 years ago.

And as for ETs that aren't Darwinianaly inspired, I guess I don't know what that would entail.  I think Darwin and his ideas describe all successful lifeforms in the universe.  Survival of the fittest is the defining trait of that which survives.

That it looks like humans are backsliding a bit (go watch the movie Idiocracy) doesn't mean the rest of our (possible) contenders are doing the same.

And a reminder, in all our galaxy, it just takes one civilization with what is now 50 year old earth technology and the will to employ it, to colonize our galaxy.

How long a trip an alien race would continence is an unknown.  We may well be too antropocentric in assuming a 20 million year trip would be a deal breaker under the conditions of alien life span, alien social and economic imperative, alien psychology, and alien technology and raw material.

We also may be too beholden to the limitation imposed by our own technology and organization in assuming exploration necessarily involve primarily a series of point a - point b transitions involving a physical spaceship.

It is sound to assume that what we can reasonably postulate is what seems plausible to us at the current time.  It is unsound to assume what we can reasonably postulate represent all that we should assume can be postulated.

[vorlon13]

And in that example, I should have made clear I was referring to a human made nuclear impulse multi-generation craft with a human crew.

There might be aliens that feel 20 million years is just a noodge boring, LOL.

As for humans on a flight like that, even the rate of hull leakage could be a dire problem. How do you keep something big pressurized for 20 million years with no possibility of a refill during that time? And a power source that works that long? And the propulsion units will be past their sell by date long before they are needed for the decal at Andromeda.

A 20 million year flight also would invite Darwin to mess with the crew. What is 'manning' the vessel after 20 million years would no longer be human unless extremely advanced genetic engineering/repair/maintenance techniques were developed.

And even let's say the resources of 10 or 100 colonies were employed to build a really big ship to send to Andromeda, the odds of success would still be zero.

And even aliens with extremely long life spans will still be faced with the same engineering challenges for going from here to there, or vice versa. The power source seems really tough to engineer.

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

@ Excited Penguin

First off, I want to thank you for your thought-provoking, intelligent, and creative post.  I saw your post on Tuesday; however, I did not want to respond unless I could give you a meaningful reply.  As a result, I hope my following responses to your post will be meaningful, sir.

Let me start off by congratulating you on starting a great conversation topic. I've been looking forward to you starting just such a one for quite some time now. You are a very educated and highly intelligent individual and I'm glad to have the opportunity to exchange some ideas with you on a variety of things, not least of all the one you're introducing right now.

You're very kind and gentlemanly, Excited Penguin.  Thank you for your kind remarks.

I think, if this hypothetical alien civilisation partakes even slightly in our wonderment about the universe, our search for our place in it and for an overarching meaning to our very existence on this plane, then yes, there's a very likely chance they would welcome such an educative opportunity as soon as one might present itself for them.

In my following responses, I will place myself in the imaginary role of a humanoid, alien observer (I realize alien life can be very complex and unfathomable; thus, I’m just picking one of many possibilities here) who is interested in meeting humanity. In addition, based on your post, I will pretend that you are a fellow colleague who wants to establish peaceful relations with the inhabitants of Earth.  I hope that you are okay with this; if not, then I have no problem formerly retracting my post.  Hence, I’m just trying to have some fun with this. 

My criteria for what I would do in their stead are the following:

 
I would first devise a method for reliable and joint communication. This would be a key point, and not to be overlooked under any circumstances. Given failure to accomplish this, the whole project would have to be abandoned until significant progress on this one front would be (re-)established in lieu of pursuing what would surely become a diplomatic inter-civilisational fiasco absent this one most foundational component to the whole enterprise.

Agreed it would be vital to establish some means of reliable joint communication.  However, based on my observations, we cannot communicate with any one nation or group of nations.  IMO, our communications must be with representatives of Earth who can best represent their peoples’ unique and diverse interests.

Then, I would concern myself with expressing my own civilisation's best intentions going forward in the most mutually agreeable and reassuring manner possible. A symbolic gesture of goodwill in the form of sharing some initially small amounts of beneficial technology and scientific progress with the corresponding scientific counterparts of the visited world would go a long way on achieving this, and it would have to be very carefully administered so as to maximize the alleviation of fears and minimize the apprehensive and hostile attitude that one might foresee on the part of the intended recipients of said gift.

Well said, sir.  However, I think our progress with step number one, establishing reliable joint communication, would dictate how much technology or knowledge to share with humanity. Based on my research and observations of humanity, they are very cautious of visitors from other lands, especially when these visitors claim to come in peace and goodwill:  via human history, this behavior is often a prelude toward colonizing and conquering others.  In contrast to their potential suspicions and distrust, you and I genuinely want to make contact with these life-forms; however, we must accept the fact that they may solely interpret our arrival based on their experiences and sense-making processes; therefore, we can’t expect them to get outside of themselves and embrace the unknown. Thus, if we rush the process of giving them time to adapt to us, they could ultimately turn hostile, and we will fail in our quest to understand them.  More importantly, we cannot expect humanity to be swayed by our words and claims alone:  our genuine desire for peace must be exhibited through our actions and behavior; only then can our words gain more weight and meaning with them, which can ultimately aid us in gaining their trust and making them feel safe.

From here on out, one can only imagine what the situation might call for. Certainly, diplomatic relationships would have to be formally established and nurtured with great care and the corresponding officianza of government(s) would have to be implicated in the process in order for them to have the opportunity to build on that crucial bond together with the interstellar guests and so that every party involved, on the side of the inhabitants of the Solar System( id est, -- one assumes the unchanged future location of our civilisation for the purpose of this discussion), gets the best deal being thrown on the table, whatever that deal might imply for their future, so long as it would be a conceptually good future that would conceivably have to be weaved.

We already know our interests and the interests of the interstellar community to which we belong. You and I are very used to putting the various negotiating issues and their accompanying underlying interests out into the open for all parties to rationally discuss and collaboratively brainstorm, so that all parties can uncover overlapping interests and reach a mutually beneficial solution. 

However, we have to keep in mind that we are outsiders to humanity.  Even when negotiating among themselves, they have a tendency to disguise their true underlying interests and concerns with substantive issues to which they may attach strong emotions.  Thus, we need to be very patient in our negotiations with them and do far more listening than talking. 

 I remember a wise negotiating principle from one of my teachers: understanding does not mean agreement.  As a result, we need to make sure that we understand humanity’s various positions and that they actually confirm that we understand them.  This may be harder than it sounds, because we will have to make sure that their non-verbal and verbal communication are both on the same page; if they are not, then we will have to slow down and listen more actively and carefully. Once we do understand them and they are engaging us rationally and safely, then we can present our interests and goals to them: interstellar peace and harmony; interstellar travel and exploration; preserving the individual uniqueness and ways of life of the occupants in space as we know it; encouraging interstellar diversity and engaging difference with goodwill and inquiry; valuing all forms of life, especially sentient lifeforms.

Humanity might or might not meet the criteria for successfully pulling this off given the chance. I like its chances nevertheless, if only you allowed me to add a couple of centuries of advancement to its current state of affairs at the very least. So, then, I believe it is relatively ready, but I would prefer it if we made definite progress on at least some of the more dire issues that lie heavy on our collective conscience as a technologically enhanced species at this very moment in history by the time we will have been able to send ships for interstellar missions of finding out and connecting with fellow civilizations hiding among the ever elusive, but nevertheless promising and awe inducing stars decorating some future astronautical explorer's sights.

Well said, sir.  I’d also like to say that I may have forgotten some of our interests, so please step in and modify what I have posted above.  In addition, if I have misrepresented your words and thoughts in any way, then please correct me.  IMO, it is absolutely important for us to fully understand each other in order for our mission to be a success.

Unfortunately, you may be right that humanity just might not be ready to join us: success is ultimately measured by how useful we have actually been and not by how useful we think we were.  If, in the end of our negotiating efforts, our goals are incompatible with humanity's goals, then we will ultimately have to walk away.  I hope it does not come to this, but imposing our interests of peace and friendship on humanity, could ultimately contaminate their culture and do more harm than good; thus, contradicting everything we stand for. 
 
Well, thank you for your correspondence, Excited Penguin, and I look forward to exchanging more ideas and thoughts with you about this marvelous opportunity to learn about humanity.  Yours truly, KS.

[Fake Messiah]

"Of course humans are ready for the 1st contact - until someone asks aliens do they believe in god, then whole hell would brake lose." - Sarah Palin

[Athene]

Is this where I sign up for the Resistance? 'Cause I wanna join the goddamn Resistance!

Right now! Sign me up.....for the Resistance. Please.