Trump and the First Amendment

[Crossless2.0]

This is pure distraction from the issues, and people should stop talking about it, stop reacting to it, and move the focus over to issues that matter, IMO.

Trump is a genius at this kind of thing. Every time some negative press gets traction that could be a problem for him, he just makes some random nonsensical statement and that statement overtakes the negative press.

We need to keep the conversation on issues that actually affect the Presidency, like the fact he isn't putting his business into a blind trust.

Whatever Trump's motive in posting that tweet (and I think you're right that it's an intentional distraction), this is something that shouldn't be left unanswered. According to polling data I saw some time ago, a majority thought that flag-burning should not be protected speech. Now, it's true that Congress can't really do anything about this, even if they want to, and it does not seem to be the case that they really have the stomach for even trying. But I can easily imagine a well-funded grassroots movement to amend the Constitution gaining momentum. The ultra-nationalists are emboldened these days. Forget Trump. It's his followers I'm worried about.

And yes, his businesses should be put in a blind trust. I predict that his failure to do so will ultimately be his undoing.

[Doubting Thomas]

What's wrong with you people?  Clearly, freedom of speech applies ONLY to speech we already agree with. Sheesh.

Boru

Reminds me of a scene from M*A*S*H:

Frank: It's not normal!
Trapper: What's "normal", Frank?
Frank: "Normal" is everybody doing the same thing.
Hawkeye: What about individuality, Frank?
Frank: Individuality's fine - as long as we all do it together.

[Tiberius]

this is something that shouldn't be left unanswered

It hasn't been left unanswered though; the Supreme Court decided it decades ago.

According to some polling data I saw some time ago, a majority thought that flag-burning should not be protected speech.

Which is why it's great that we have a constitution that says a big "fuck you" to majority thought.

Now, it's true that Congress can't really do anything about this, even if they want to, and it does not seem to be the case that they really have the stomach for even trying. But I can easily imagine a well-funded grassroots movement to amend the Constitution gaining momentum. The ultra-nationalists are emboldened these days. Forget Trump. It's his followers I'm worried about.

To amend the constitution you require 2/3 majority in both the House (possible but unlikely) and the Senate (impossible in its current balance). Then you need 38 states to approve the amendment.

That isn't ever going to happen, grassroots movement or not.

[Minimalist]

Yep.

There is a segment of Americans who still don't understand the concept behind why flag burning is protected under the 1st Amendment. People in my own family think it should be outlawed and no matter how many times I've told them that it's about free speech and expression, they just don't give a shit.

Trump's shocking anti-free speech stances were really what should have done him in. That is, in an America where people actually understood the threat he represents to First Amendment freedoms, he would have been summarily shitcanned and a humorous memory at this point.

And as usual, the irony is that the conservative who yodel out their ass about "The Constitooshun" are the ones who would scrap it if they had the chance. Not that they would understand they were scrapping it. Hopefully all of this will represent a klaxon-like wake up call for people to actually pay attention to what candidates say and think about the implications of those words.

Looking at things in a historical perspective - 50+years - rather than our customary 24 hour news cycle these days, it is apparent to me that the long-term decline of the US began with the Vietnam War.  We have never recovered from the anti-war divide which split the nation and which came relatively quickly on the heels of the Civil Rights struggle.  As a nation we have not accomplished much if anything since the Apollo program which ended in 1972 just when Nixon was re-elected.  Drumpf is certainly not the man to re-invigorate the nation.  And this flag burning shit is exactly the type of wedge issue that republicunts have used to distract people from the fucking over they are getting from the upper 1%.  Simple people need simple issues and that is the republicunts stock in trade.

I'm glad I'm old enough to know that when the end comes I'll be long gone.  I do feel sorry for young kids today.  They are going to grow up in a shitstorm.

[Crossless2.0]

That isn't ever going to happen, grassroots movement or not.

You're right that the odds are long, and an amendment is unlikely to pass if introduced. But if 2016 has taught me anything it's that one should never underestimate the sheer lunacy and stupidity that can take hold in this country. We'll see how that Senate balance looks after the mid-terms.

[account_inactive]

Anything is possible, Tiberius.

[Crossless2.0]

Anything is possible, Tiberius.

Right?

"Prohibition? Forget about it! It'll never happen here. We like our liquor too much for that. Who would be stupid enough to vote for it?"

[brewer]

Start making flags out of hemp.

[Opoponax]

Opoponax

Looking at things in a historical perspective - 50+years - rather than our customary 24 hour news cycle these days, it is apparent to me that the long-term decline of the US began with the Vietnam War.  We have never recovered from the anti-war divide which split the nation and which came relatively quickly on the heels of the Civil Rights struggle.  As a nation we have not accomplished much if anything since the Apollo program which ended in 1972 just when Nixon was re-elected.  Drumpf is certainly not the man to re-invigorate the nation.  And this flag burning shit is exactly the type of wedge issue that republicunts have used to distract people from the fucking over they are getting from the upper 1%.  Simple people need simple issues and that is the republicunts stock in trade.

I'm glad I'm old enough to know that when the end comes I'll be long gone.  I do feel sorry for young kids today.  They are going to grow up in a shitstorm.

 I wouldn't be so sure about being too old to see the end. Trump takes the oath of office in January along with the Republican House and Senate. 

There is a generally proffered opinion right now that Trump will be limited by checks and balances. But it's only hope dressed up in willful naiveté. The abuses of office witnessed under Bush/Cheney were by no means the extent of which the Executive can be abused. 

And maybe I'm being alarmist, but I don't see GOP politicians having the backbone to stand up to Trump. They have marched in mindless lockstep for so long that it's become a kind of muscle memory for them. There will be a few dissenters, sure. But most will go along without much prodding. That means passed legislation and appointments to positions of power without much dissent, if any. 

The Executive also controls federal policing power. 
The FBI director is appointed by the President.
The head of the ATF is nominated by the President. 
The President appoints the head of the CIA. 
Et-fucking-cetera.

Trump is going to appoint those people. And those people will appoint those below them. 

All that's going to be needed is marching orders. 

Again, maybe I'm being paranoid. I hope so.

[downbeatplumb]

This is pure distraction from the issues, and people should stop talking about it, stop reacting to it, and move the focus over to issues that matter, IMO.

Trump is a genius at this kind of thing. Every time some negative press gets traction that could be a problem for him, he just makes some random nonsensical statement and that statement overtakes the negative press.

We need to keep the conversation on issues that actually affect the Presidency, like the fact he isn't putting his business into a blind trust.

Trump is like a crap magician "look over here" while he does some evil shit elsewhere. He should not be anywhere near power.