Did anyone else get deconverted by a single sentence?

[Astonished]

He's definitely good for forming ways to use these against theists.

In a similar vein, I think an even more meaningful point he made was that the game is rigged from the beginning when it comes to religious morality. Coming from a traditional Catholic morality (which I believe is the most rigid of any major religion) this was extremely eye opening to me. I had never thought that I was supposed to fail by design when it came to Catholic conceptions of sin. The bar is set so high and so rigid that you are supposed to fail, and this initiates a cycle of guilt, confession, humiliation, return to obedience, and then the inevitable 'rebellion' of sin, and then you start the process over again. It's like a morality ponzi scheme, the debt of sin just keeps racking up and you can't escape from under it because the very system is designed to keep you indebted to the Church.

Exactly. What kind and loving god wants you constantly in a state of fear, panic, depression and all other things bad that religion is exclusively responsible for in this sense?

Here's how I see it. Life is not a gift, so it should not be argued as such in terms of this point I'm about to make, by the way:
We are not given the option to opt out of this choice. Rather than god being reasonable and saying, "Okay, so you're going to be born with zero knowledge and rely only on your parents and others to teach you how shit works, and I'm intentionally going to make my message completely incomprehensible. Now, there are two choices ahead of you in your life. You roll the dice and live in whatever way you come to be convinced is going to get you into my kingdom of eternal bliss, or you roll the dice and live in a way that gets you thrown into fiery agony forever." No reasonable, compassionate god would forget to add, "But since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to give you the option not to have to face such an insurmountable choice. I can extinguish you, make you a miscarriage or stillborn depending on at what point in the pregnancy I bother to start communicating with your freshly-created soul, and send you to oblivion where you came from. You won't remember having made the choice when I shove you back into your mom's cooch, but it's your choice right now, with a somewhat-developed understanding of the world and these concepts but absolutely no knowledge of where in time or earth you'll end up being born and growing up or any of the experiences you'll have while alive. So, what's it gonna be? No pressure."

[Rhondazvous]

Exactly. What kind and loving god wants you constantly in a state of fear, panic, depression and all other things bad that religion is exclusively responsible for in this sense?

Here's how I see it. Life is not a gift, so it should not be argued as such in terms of this point I'm about to make, by the way:
We are not given the option to opt out of this choice. Rather than god being reasonable and saying, "Okay, so you're going to be born with zero knowledge and rely only on your parents and others to teach you how shit works, and I'm intentionally going to make my message completely incomprehensible. Now, there are two choices ahead of you in your life. You roll the dice and live in whatever way you come to be convinced is going to get you into my kingdom of eternal bliss, or you roll the dice and live in a way that gets you thrown into fiery agony forever." No reasonable, compassionate god would forget to add, "But since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to give you the option not to have to face such an insurmountable choice. I can extinguish you, make you a miscarriage or stillborn depending on at what point in the pregnancy I bother to start communicating with your freshly-created soul, and send you to oblivion where you came from. You won't remember having made the choice when I shove you back into your mom's cooch, but it's your choice right now, with a somewhat-developed understanding of the world and these concepts but absolutely no knowledge of where in time or earth you'll end up being born and growing up or any of the experiences you'll have while alive. So, what's it gonna be? No pressure."

"And by the way, there'll be a bunch of people telling you what you need to do and believe to get into my kingdom. Out of respect for your free will, I won't give you the slightest clue which one is right. You will have the eenie meenie minie mo method at your disposal. And you'll be held responsible if you choose the wrong one. If by chance you choose the right one (and there's only one right one) I'll greet you with open arms. Good luck."

[Astonished]

Exactly. What kind and loving god wants you constantly in a state of fear, panic, depression and all other things bad that religion is exclusively responsible for in this sense?

Here's how I see it. Life is not a gift, so it should not be argued as such in terms of this point I'm about to make, by the way:
We are not given the option to opt out of this choice. Rather than god being reasonable and saying, "Okay, so you're going to be born with zero knowledge and rely only on your parents and others to teach you how shit works, and I'm intentionally going to make my message completely incomprehensible. Now, there are two choices ahead of you in your life. You roll the dice and live in whatever way you come to be convinced is going to get you into my kingdom of eternal bliss, or you roll the dice and live in a way that gets you thrown into fiery agony forever." No reasonable, compassionate god would forget to add, "But since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to give you the option not to have to face such an insurmountable choice. I can extinguish you, make you a miscarriage or stillborn depending on at what point in the pregnancy I bother to start communicating with your freshly-created soul, and send you to oblivion where you came from. You won't remember having made the choice when I shove you back into your mom's cooch, but it's your choice right now, with a somewhat-developed understanding of the world and these concepts but absolutely no knowledge of where in time or earth you'll end up being born and growing up or any of the experiences you'll have while alive. So, what's it gonna be? No pressure."

"And by the way, there'll be a bunch of people telling you what you need to do and believe to get into my kingdom. Out of respect for your free will, I won't give you the slightest clue which one is right. You will have the eenie meenie minie mo method at your disposal. And you'll be held responsible if you choose the wrong one. If by chance you choose the right one (and there's only one right one) I'll greet you with open arms.  Good luck."

I thought I had covered that with the 'roll the dice' part, but yeah, it lacks the punch of eenie meenie minie moe.

[Rhondazvous]

"And by the way, there'll be a bunch of people telling you what you need to do and believe to get into my kingdom. Out of respect for your free will, I won't give you the slightest clue which one is right. You will have the eenie meenie minie mo method at your disposal. And you'll be held responsible if you choose the wrong one. If by chance you choose the right one (and there's only one right one) I'll greet you with open arms.  Good luck."

I thought I had covered that with the 'roll the dice' part, but yeah, it lacks the punch of eenie meenie minie moe.

Or like we used to say when I was a kid, eenie meenie goosalini ooh ah ah malini ahchie cahchie liberachi I love you.

[Cyberman]

I like "Eeny meeny macharaka, hie die doma nacka, sticka stacka rima racka, om pom push".

[Rhondazvous]

I like "Eeny meeny macharaka, hie die doma nacka, sticka stacka rima racka, om pom push".

Going looptee loo on that one. Good night.

[DogDad]

I was watching a Youtube video of Christopher Hitchens, and he had a great one liner. 

Paraphrasing about his statement on Jesus: "You must listen to my commands because my Mom never slept with anybody". 

Being a Roman Catholic at first I admit I just thought it was a funny and a bit blasphamous. I was surprised I wasn't offended. Then I thought, that actually is a great point. 

Obviously it was a one liner played for laughs and not meant to be deeply theological. But I admit that "broke through" for me.

[arewethereyet]

6+ year old thread closed.

Please start a new thread after your intro.  

Thank you, drive thru.