Is God Perfact? How?

[Astonished]

Rik, let me just ask you since you're such an authority on all things god, where did you come by this intimate and infallible knowledge of god if not in some man-made holy book?

[Godscreated]

What do theists mean when they say god is perfect? I may be wrong but I doubt very seriously that any two of 7 billion people will have exactly the same concept of what constitutes perfection. At this point the theist will say that it’s not about what people think perfection is but what god thinks perfection is.  So god set the standard for perfection and then declared himself to be such?

You are never serious about what Christians think. You have already answered for us to satisfy your predetermined bias. You do this in many threads you start, what I do not understand is why you start a thread like this if you are already satisfied by speaking for us? You do know this kind of thing can indicate you have a problem with actually wanting to learn.

GC

[Rhondazvous]

Being alone and being lonely are two entirely different things. God's  narcissistic  preoccupation with being worshipped is the mark of lonely insecurity.

Oh, I see.
So you have solid evidence that God said that he require to be worshipped?

Good, let us see this evidence Rhonda.  

I nominate Little Rik as Poe of the Year for 2016.

Seconds?

---

What do theists mean when they say god is perfect? I may be wrong but I doubt very seriously that any two of 7 billion people will have exactly the same concept of what constitutes perfection. At this point the theist will say that it’s not about what people think perfection is but what god thinks perfection is.  So god set the standard for perfection and then declared himself to be such?

You are never serious about what Christians think. You have already answered for us to satisfy your predetermined bias. You do this in many threads you start, what I do not understand is why you start a thread like this if you are already satisfied by speaking for us? You do know this kind of thing can indicate you have a problem with actually wanting to learn.

GC

Uh oh. Look out, Rik. Competition is stiff this year.

[Godscreated]

You are never serious about what Christians think. You have already answered for us to satisfy your predetermined bias. You do this in many threads you start, what I do not understand is why you start a thread like this if you are already satisfied by speaking for us? You do know this kind of thing can indicate you have a problem with actually wanting to learn.

GC

Uh oh. Look out, Rik. Competition is stiff this year.

Why is it you refuse to learn? Are you afraid of truth, I know it can be painful at first but like Jesus said, the truth will set you free.

GC

[Edwardo Piet]

No idea whether God is perfact or not but he's certainly not perfect.

[Rhondazvous]

No idea whether God is perfact or not but he's certainly not perfect.

Gee, all this time and all these replies and nobody else saw that. Well, I guess it happens to the best of us. Or am I now an honorary valedictorian of the Drippy School of Creative Spelling?

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm just massively pedantic.

[Drich]

What do theists mean when they say god is perfect? I may be wrong but I doubt very seriously that any two of 7 billion people will have exactly the same concept of what constitutes perfection. At this point the theist will say that it’s not about what people think perfection is but what god thinks perfection is.  So god set the standard for perfection and then declared himself to be such?

Okay let’s look at the attributes of god and see if there is even one theist here who will dare to declare that this is his idea of perfection.

1. He is jealous

So?
Where is it written that jealousy is wrong?

2. Although he is omnipotent, he has a lot of things he can’t do, e.g., he can’t forgive sin without violent bloodshed.

God is alpha and omega the first and the last authority. Meaning before anything else God is what He wants to be. That is true omnipotence.

3. He refuses to take responsibility for his actions or for the things he allows others to do. Did he not praise Job for not blaming god for his troubles? And do not Christians excuse god by claiming he only allowed Satan to hurt Job?

All God did was take his 'shield off of Job.' Satan could have blessed Job further/bought Him off or treated him better than God did. But rather Satan decided to wreck Job's life. So what are you really angry at? As none of what God did for Job was owed to Job. Like wise the removal of God's shield and blessings was not a wrong doing.

4. He doesn’t keep his promises. Joshua 17:18, “But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.” But in Judges 1:19, “And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”
word search theology... Note you had to take passages set hundreds of years apart andtape them together to find an objection. The book of Joshua is about dividing up or when the Jews first came to the promise land. Lets look at a contextual passage in a dialect we both can read:
16 The people of Joseph said, “It is true that the hill country of Ephraim is not large enough for us. But the Canaanites living there have powerful weapons—they have iron chariots! And they control Jezreel Valley, Beth Shean, and all the small towns in that area.”

17 Then Joshua said to the people of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, “You have many people and you are very strong, so you should get more than one share of the land. 18 You will take these mountains. It is a forest, but you can cut down the trees and make it a good place to live. You can take it from the Canaanites and force them to leave. You can defeat them, even if they are strong and have iron chariots.”

Did you see it? the tribe of EPh/Mana rejected the valley country and Joseph told them they could take and hols the mountainous Forrest as no chariots could be used there, and that is what they did. Then hundreds of years later when Israel began to rebel against God and began to worship false God do you find the opening failure with chariots.. The book of Judges is about the defeats and destruction of israel via the 'judges' God sents to bring them back into the fold.

5. He punishes minor offences with draconian ruthlessness, 2 Samuel 6: 1-7 god kills Uzzah for trying to save the arc of the covenant,

who say that was a minor offense? someone without the benefit of perspective?

Numbers 15: 32:36, god orders the death of a man who was picking up sticks on the sabbath

Again, if God is establishing that the wage of sin, all sin is death, then how is this a minor offense?

.; but forgives major transgressions. King David sets Bathsheba’s husband up to be killed to cover her untimely pregnancy, but god gives him a chance to repent, which he did not give to Uzzah.

David repented the first moment his sin was made apparent, even so he felt the sting of his own sins through the deaths of his sons.

Uzzah, Not being of the tribe of levi should have been no where near the ark let alone close enough to reach out and touch it. That guy was testing God/wanted the power of those who who had touched the ark. Again not a minor thing.

6. He commands people to do things he considers sinful then punishes them for doing what he told them to do. 2 Samuel 24: 1 where god tells king David to hold the census

After decreeing to never count the people of Israel David hears what he wants to and despite being consolued against it by his yop advisors he does so anyway.

7. He punishes the innocent. God killed 70,000 men (this figure may not even include the women and children) because of Kind David’s census.

define innocent. then provide proof these people were.

8. He deceives people, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.” Oh but theists will say he did this for a reason. These people deserved to be deceived and lied to.  In other words there’s no absolute moral standard for deception and lying. It’s all relative.

God did not lie. God allowed delusion to over take those who were susceptible to it.

Now since 7 is the number of perfection, we’ll stop here.

I hear drippy and GC complaining that all my examples involve human standards of perfection and what is good for humans instead of seeing things through the eyes of god.  Yes, that’s true.

If that is true how does that not invalidate your complaints?

You would have me believe that god created me with my own eyes, the ability to feel pain and sorrow, then put me in a world where pain and sorrow are the only way for me to grow as he wants me to grow.

yes. or rather grow with structure and direction.

But why insist on ascribing a human words like perfection on god if I’m not to define perfection in human terms? I’m a human and the word has no meaning outside human terms.

because God even in the Greek does not claim your utopic idealism of the word perfection and ascribe it to himself.

Again His definition in the greek describes one that is complete lacking nothing/without sin. Both definitions have been used.

The way you are using the word "perfect" is the lazy mind's way of using a word in it's full translated meaning, but not taking into account that the original intent has lost some of it's intent in translation.

That is why I say you can't ascribe this utopian meaning on god, because that is not what is being communicated in it's original text.

[Rhondazvous]

What do theists mean when they say god is perfect? I may be wrong but I doubt very seriously that any two of 7 billion people will have exactly the same concept of what constitutes perfection. At this point the theist will say that it’s not about what people think perfection is but what god thinks perfection is.  So god set the standard for perfection and then declared himself to be such?

Okay let’s look at the attributes of god and see if there is even one theist here who will dare to declare that this is his idea of perfection.

1. He is jealous

So?
Where is it written that jealousy is wrong?

2. Although he is omnipotent, he has a lot of things he can’t do, e.g., he can’t forgive sin without violent bloodshed.

God is alpha and omega the first and the last authority. Meaning before anything else God is what He wants to be. That is true omnipotence.

3. He refuses to take responsibility for his actions or for the things he allows others to do. Did he not praise Job for not blaming god for his troubles? And do not Christians excuse god by claiming he only allowed Satan to hurt Job?

All God did was take his 'shield off of Job.' Satan could have blessed Job further/bought Him off or treated him better than God did. But rather Satan decided to wreck Job's life. So what are you really angry at? As none of what God did for Job was owed to Job. Like wise the removal of God's shield and blessings was not a wrong doing.

4. He doesn’t keep his promises. Joshua 17:18, “But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.” But in Judges 1:19, “And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”
word search theology... Note you had to take passages set hundreds of years apart andtape them together to find an objection. The book of Joshua is about dividing up or when the Jews first came to the promise land. Lets look at a contextual passage in a dialect we both can read:
16 The people of Joseph said, “It is true that the hill country of Ephraim is not large enough for us. But the Canaanites living there have powerful weapons—they have iron chariots! And they control Jezreel Valley, Beth Shean, and all the small towns in that area.”

17 Then Joshua said to the people of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, “You have many people and you are very strong, so you should get more than one share of the land. 18 You will take these mountains. It is a forest, but you can cut down the trees and make it a good place to live. You can take it from the Canaanites and force them to leave. You can defeat them, even if they are strong and have iron chariots.”

Did you see it? the tribe of EPh/Mana rejected the valley country and Joseph told them they could take and hols the mountainous Forrest as no chariots could be used there, and that is what they did. Then hundreds of years later when Israel began to rebel against God and began to worship false God do you find the opening failure with chariots.. The book of Judges is about the defeats and destruction of israel via the 'judges' God sents to bring them back into the fold.

5. He punishes minor offences with draconian ruthlessness, 2 Samuel 6: 1-7 god kills Uzzah for trying to save the arc of the covenant,

who say that was a minor offense? someone without the benefit of perspective?

Numbers 15: 32:36, god orders the death of a man who was picking up sticks on the sabbath

Again, if God is establishing that the wage of sin, all sin is death, then how is this a minor offense?

.; but forgives major transgressions. King David sets Bathsheba’s husband up to be killed to cover her untimely pregnancy, but god gives him a chance to repent, which he did not give to Uzzah.

David repented the first moment his sin was made apparent, even so he felt the sting of his own sins through the deaths of his sons.

Uzzah, Not being of the tribe of levi should have been no where near the ark let alone close enough to reach out and touch it. That guy was testing God/wanted the power of those who who had touched the ark. Again not a minor thing.

6. He commands people to do things he considers sinful then punishes them for doing what he told them to do. 2 Samuel 24: 1 where god tells king David to hold the census

After decreeing to never count the people of Israel David hears what he wants to and despite being consolued against it by his yop advisors he does so anyway.

7. He punishes the innocent. God killed 70,000 men (this figure may not even include the women and children) because of Kind David’s census.

define innocent. then provide proof these people were.

8. He deceives people, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.” Oh but theists will say he did this for a reason. These people deserved to be deceived and lied to.  In other words there’s no absolute moral standard for deception and lying. It’s all relative.

God did not lie. God allowed delusion to over take those who were susceptible to it.

Now since 7 is the number of perfection, we’ll stop here.

I hear drippy and GC complaining that all my examples involve human standards of perfection and what is good for humans instead of seeing things through the eyes of god.  Yes, that’s true.

If that is true how does that not invalidate your complaints?

You would have me believe that god created me with my own eyes, the ability to feel pain and sorrow, then put me in a world where pain and sorrow are the only way for me to grow as he wants me to grow.

yes. or rather grow with structure and direction.

But why insist on ascribing a human words like perfection on god if I’m not to define perfection in human terms? I’m a human and the word has no meaning outside human terms.

because God even in the Greek does not claim your utopic idealism of the word perfection and ascribe it to himself.

Again His definition in the greek describes one that is complete lacking nothing/without sin. Both definitions have been used.

The way you are using the word "perfect" is the lazy mind's way of using a word in it's full translated meaning, but not taking into account that the original intent has lost some of it's intent in translation.

That is why I say you can't ascribe this utopian meaning  on god, because that is not what is being communicated in it's original text.

third candidate for Poe of the Year. Damn, these guys are running nose to nose. It one of them doesn't get a leg up soon it will be a tie.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say:

Fuck off Drich