Tooth Fairy Bullshit

[Pat Mustard]

It's not that we deny that Christianity contributed to culture(They came up with extremely inventive ways to torture people, after all).  It's that we deny that Christians contributed everything they claimed to have contributed, and we hate the fact that they simply dismiss all of the terrible things they contributed.  To hear Chad tell it, Christianity is responsible for the Renaissance, the Theory of Relativity and every life-saving surgical procedure ever invented, while things like the mass genocide of the natives in the Americas is barely worth mentioning.

In 100 years Christians will be claiming they were responsible for gay rights, the separation of church and state, and the internet.

We already have that here, every time the Ionanist Institute talks about a referendum it opposed after it passing, they claim that they were for the referendum and were instrumental in getting it passed. Well, I say every referendum, they haven't claimed the gay marriage one yet, guess they must be waiting for the repeal the Eighth one.

[Aroura]

Right. 

When a religious person does something bad, it's because of religion. When a religious person does something good, inspired by and influenced by his/her religions to do it, all of the sudden religion has nothing to do with it. 

Quoting "Steven Weinberg" (whoever he is) doesn't make this inconsistency/double standard any less bs.

Wait, I think I might have a better way to explain it.

You are a good person, CL. Everyone who meets you discovers this, and pretty much agrees.
If something happened to you that caused you to lose your faith, and you were to join us heathens....nothing would change. You would still be a good person. You would still be the kind woman who wants to help children and the less fortunate. You would still be understanding of other viewpoints, because whether you realize it or not your religion isn't making you do good things or be a good person. You aren't shallow, you do not need the threats of hell or the rewards of heaven to motivate you to do the right thing. You do them because they are the right thing.

It can motivate people to do the wrong thing though, because their priest or holy book tells them so they might come to believe it is right, and gods laws would override puny human laws or concerns. Does that make more sense?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Religious convictions, whether they are right or wrong, address the most profound questions of human existence and, at least for Christianity in particular, provide reasonable answers to those questions.

Uh, no, they don't.  That's partly what we're trying to explain to you here with this whole tooth fairy thing.

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" There just is.
"Why does the world have a rational order?" It just does.
"Why do causes produce regular effects?" They just do.

Yeah, those are reasonable answers...not.

[Jesster]

Uh, no, they don't.  That's partly what we're trying to explain to you here with this whole tooth fairy thing.

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" There just is.
"Why does the world have a rational order?" It just does.
"Why do causes produce regular effects?" They just do.

Yeah, those are reasonable answers...not.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Funny, how that is always your response but you never seem to step up to the plate to explain why.

[Jesster]

It's my response when someone is so obviously putting words into another's mouth they likely wouldn't say themselves. If you tried a little harder, then I would as well.

[Catholic_Lady]

Right. 

When a religious person does something bad, it's because of religion. When a religious person does something good, inspired by and influenced by his/her religions to do it, all of the sudden religion has nothing to do with it. 

Quoting "Steven Weinberg" (whoever he is) doesn't make this inconsistency/double standard any less bs.

Wait, I think I might have a better way to explain it.

You are a good person, CL. Everyone who meets you discovers this, and pretty much agrees.
If something happened to you that caused you to lose your faith, and you were to join us heathens....nothing would change. You would still be a good person. You would still be the kind woman who wants to help children and the less fortunate. You would still be understanding of other viewpoints, because whether you realize it or not your religion isn't making you do good things or be a good person. You aren't shallow, you do not need the threats of hell or the rewards of heaven to motivate you to do the right thing. You do them because they are the right thing.

It can motivate people to do the wrong thing though, because their priest or holy book tells them so they might come to believe it is right, and gods laws would override puny human laws or concerns. Does that make more sense?

Thank you for the compliments. I'll have to disagree though. If you claim religion (or a priest or a holy book) can influence people to do bad things, there's no reason why it can't influence people to do good things. I think when someone attributes people's bad actions to their religion, but then does not attribute good actions to it, it's really unfair and clearly biased.

[Faith No More]

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" There just is.
"Why does the world have a rational order?" It just does.
"Why do causes produce regular effects?" They just do.

Yeah, those are reasonable answers...not.

Woah, sweet 90's catchphrase, dude.

Let's try this again...

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" I don't know.  Let's investigate.  Is this even a sensible question?
"Why does the world have a rational order?" I don't know.  Let's investigate, even though I'm not sure how it could have an irrational order.
"Why do causes produce regular effects?"   I don't know, but is it even possible that causes could produce irregular effects?

As opposed to...

An invisible, powerful wizard poofed the universe into existence, so I could have a place to live my inherently naughty life to try to pass a test of which this wizard already knows the outcome.  Then, in order for me to pass this test, the wizard came down as his own son by magically impregnating a virgin and purposefully got himself nailed to a cross in order to perform a blood sacrifice for my inherent naughtiness.  Then he rose from the dead and talked to a few people before ascending to his cloud city paradise.  The wizard, who is also the ultimate source of morality, cares nothing about whether I live a moral life, especially since he created me inherently naughty.  Instead, all I have to do is believe in the blood sacrifice and I will get to spend eternity in his cloud city paradise instead of burning in a fiery pit for eternity because of the inherent naughtiness the wizard doesn't feel like fixing with his magical powers, which would have prevented atrocities like the mass murder of his chosen people.

Oh, and the reason for all this naughtiness is humanity's free will, even though I'm going to spend eternity in cloud city paradise where there is no naughtiness and I still have free will.

Yeah, that's reasonable alright.  Much more so than just admitting you don't know something.

[Ravenshire]

Oh, and the reason for all this naughtiness is humanity's free will, even though I'm going to spend eternity in cloud city paradise where there is no naughtiness and I still have free will.

I do so love the people who actually believe that free will is the reason humanity "fell" but convince themselves that all will be right in heaven even though humans will still have free will. It's supposed to be eternity. In that premise, somebody, somewhere, somehow will fuck it up. It's inevitable with human beings, free will and eternity. Then what?!? Does gawd "cast us out" again? Kick out just the one(s) who fucked it up for everybody else? Start the whole fucking mess over again?

And they really don't understand why we think their shit is silly.

Oh, and before someone jumps in with "but, we'll be right there with gawd in all it's glory." So was Lucifer, and according to the bullshit, he managed to convince 1/3 of the angels even though they were "right there with gawd in all it's glory."

[Aroura]

Wait, I think I might have a better way to explain it.

You are a good person, CL. Everyone who meets you discovers this, and pretty much agrees.
If something happened to you that caused you to lose your faith, and you were to join us heathens....nothing would change. You would still be a good person. You would still be the kind woman who wants to help children and the less fortunate. You would still be understanding of other viewpoints, because whether you realize it or not your religion isn't making you do good things or be a good person. You aren't shallow, you do not need the threats of hell or the rewards of heaven to motivate you to do the right thing. You do them because they are the right thing.

It can motivate people to do the wrong thing though, because their priest or holy book tells them so they might come to believe it is right, and gods laws would override puny human laws or concerns. Does that make more sense?

Thank you for the compliments. I'll have to disagree though. If you claim religion (or a priest or a holy book) can influence people to do bad things, there's no reason why it can't influence people to do good things. I think when someone attributes people's bad actions to their religion, but then does not attribute good actions to it, it's really unfair and clearly biased.

Please point out how it is bias?

It may seem like common sense, but you know common sense is just flat out wrong as often as not.

There may be specific I stances where religion influenced a person to do a good thing, bit the point is, people n general will do those good things even without religion. Unless you honestly believe all of us on this forum dont do good things?

And evil people will do bad things regardless of religion. Believe in god and thinking they will go to hell didn't stop any number of serial killers and such. Lack of religion doesn't make a bad person more evil, either.

But for a good , nonviolent, normal person to become a murders requires some extreme, and religion can provide that extreme, though it is not the only influence that can.

It's not bias to say religion does not cause morality, its fact. To be clear, its the other way round. Human Morality causes religion. All evidence points to this.

I understand you will continue to disagree, otherwise what would be the point of belief? Which is really my point, too.

Hey, btw, why does a gorilla adopt a kitten and care for it she it could easily rip it to bits or squash it? The kitten does not feed the gorilla, it is not really anything to the gorilla except extra work. Yes, it gets cuddles, but A snake would eat the kitten without a second thought, even if the kitten tried to give it the same cuddles.

Neither the gorilla nor the snake are good or evil, unless you are the kitten of course, they are just acting according to their natures. And so it is with humans. Our natures are social, like the gorilla. We don't need a priest to tell us to care for the kitten, we just naturally do it. Good ones anyway. The bad ones light it on fire. With or without the idea of god.