setting a watchman

[Amarok]

And Dirch continues his ignorance of history . Here's a hint storm front is not history site .

[JackRussell]

It seems certain strands of theists must think they do own their offspring, or else their theology wouldn't make sense.

So glad my girls are excluded from that kind of bullshit.

Love, not control and ownership.

Protection, not threats and punishments.

[Drich]

So Ironage/Dark ages is where you put the most civilized most advanced African society. This is the picture all people of African decent should model their behavior after, this is the culture we should all look up to, rather than push on and demand that all cultures here meld together?

Africa was has always been part of the known world with empires through the ages ,you may have heard of Mali and earlier Egypt ever hear of that? you do know some of their rulers were totally black Africans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fif...y_of_Egypt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ki...ial_Africa

You seem to want to lessen the seeming intelligence of Africans and I can only assume its for racist reasons

You don't seem to understand. I am agreeing with you. however I am also pointing out these dynastys were the pinnacles of black society. Take egypt stone to early bronze age. Now imagine a man from that period and what his 'morals" would be his social 'norms' now take that man and place him here and now. do you think he could adapt without help from the current culture? Do you think he could survive/get a job ect??/ do you think he could thrive??? (without help mind you)

Let's give him the benfit of the doubt and say yes.

NOW, take everyone else from that time period and bring them here, do you think as a society without help from the host society/us that everyone would be able to thrive like the first guy did?

No. why because there is a lack of basic infrastructure between bronze age man and post modern age man that is why. ther is 4000 years of culture and society the bronze age men lack.

In essence that is what "we"/white people did to Africans we took them out of an almost pre bronze age society and placed them in a pre industrial with no help to adapt.

Next question. How many generations do you think it would take for those time travelers kids to adapt to post modern/whatever is next society? How long before tribable stuff stops and integration/assimilation begins?

What if there is a push to retain tribal life?

That is what setting a watchman is... It is what we did for 1950's Japan. they literally went from their medieval era/industrial society to post modern in less than 30 years. something that took us many generations to accomplish on our own.

In essence setting a watch man is helping a race 'catch up' and let go the past that amounts to little more than bronze age society.

From that I extrapolate that is why black people in america are not seen as equals. Because whites were made to give up their cultural identities and were given a new identity as American. Meaning no more german americans or dutch americans or english americans and on and on. They were forced to accept everyone else as an american. (names changed photo albums seized, families split apart) All to be citizens.

Then Enter slavery, after emancipation no "watchmen." ultimatly lead to black american push for equality, but did not have the tool or social infrastructure to play on equal footing. then stronger push for segregation/To be identified as African first then American, then to live as a sub sect or sub culture that demands to be seen as the majority. In a country where no other sub culture got such a deal.

All other cultures give up their homes/orgins to become Americans. you ask a former Mexican who hard fought earned his citizenship what nationality he is and proudly will identify as american. the same is true with most all first gen citizens. It is when there is a push to retain the orginal social idenity first does it cause trouble. because again why should i see a man as an equal if I had to give up my ancestors to be an american when this man wants my very same benfits I have, but demands to retain his past and his alliegence to people of like cultural back ground first, and to america as a group after all other obligations are met.

Growing up Korean I saw this all the time. Some of the fresh off the boat Koreans were hell bent on recreating society here. Some like my grand mother never spoke a word of English, as a trade off Koreans like that were limited in how they could interact with others in this country and what people in this country thought and how they interacted with them. so as a result they sought out bigger Korean communities or they went home. however the other type of immigrant wanted to learn what they could and integrate. within a generation they did, and I feel are more welcome/seen as equals that 10th generation black people are. Why? because like white migrants or Latinos they are american first. they do not hold allegiance to their people first. they do not see themselves as a part or share a bond with people who identify as their old social group first. They see them selves as american and are treated as such. it is when a social group like "islamists" (look it up it is a group) want to recreate their home land here that is the problem. Why? look at the regions/countries Islamist come from. they are wanting to force iron age values and an iron age way of life on a post modern society. Not only that they want to be in control. When a minority group will not assimilate but demand equal treatment, they will never be seen as equals even if the law yields and gives them the same rights as those who do yield to society.

---

It's not character assassination when you've been providing all the ammunition yourself, dolt. It's more like assisted suicide.

ammo is moot till someone arm's themselves loads a weapon takes aim and fires the gun... Even so all of that effort does not make a intelligent rebuttal it is simply an attack on an individual rather than the facts of the matter.

Don't get me wrong if I were a coward or was afraid of what people thought of me I would attack you personally rather than address the facts of a scarry topic like this one.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Don't get me wrong if I were a coward or was afraid of what people thought of me I would attack you personally rather than address the facts of a scarry topic like this one.

[Drich]

Drich, you don't actually legally own your children.

Rand Paul speaking in the senate on the behalf of the great state of kentucky says otherwise.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/231...r-children

You have guardianship over them. Yes, the state can take them away at any time if you mistreat them.

actually that is not true. mistreatment is not the qualifier it habitual mistreatment with no means of correction, and at that point the state can only take tempoary custody of the children till the parents get their crap together.

Also, they are not slaves,

Understand this is my very point. I am showing you where we as people can OWN another person and it not be a chattle slave/roots type of relationship. If we can own our children and love them is it not possible in your mind to do this with another human being? especially if a man works along side of you as a brother? Again that is how 'uncle tom's" got their name. They were black slaves who were seen as family to white owners.

they are not relevant whatsoever to this discussion.

only if you close your mind and try and look at slavry in the typical black and white "slavery is bad m'kay, slavery is bad" world view. Because Again it is through our ownership of our children that we can show ownership of another human being is not an inherently evil. nor am I saying it is always good. Ownership of another is a morally netural experience. it is the circumstance in how one is obtained and treated that makes it a good or bad thing.

Of course, you may treat your children like slaves.

and if I don't? it doesn't mean I don't own them.

In that case, I'd like to know where you live so I can report you to the authorities.

1600 pennsylvania washington dc 20003
send the cops there.

There are so many things wrong with this argument, not the least of which is that slaves aren't all of a sudden free when they're 18.

you REALY have no idea what you are even talking about. Some slaves are worked seasonally, other get yearly contracts and still others get life long contracts so long as they can meet quota. for 45 million people slavery is not a bad thing it is the only think keeping them alive.

If you think owning a person is okay, you are a very, very bad person. No one has to assassinate your character. You've done it yourself.

Even if you want to play word games and will not take ownership of your children, I promise the vast majority of parents in this country will absolutely claim ownership of their kids.

---

Children aren't fucking possessions.  You do not OWN your children, you have custody of them.  It's your DUTY to look out for their wellbeing, and they don't have a damn single duty to you.

see above

[The Grand Nudger]

Jesus christ Drich, you got all of that dead wrong..but I guess that's to be expected.  You aint white.  

Firstly, Japan modernized in the early 19th century and celebrated by colonizing Korea (and other fun stuff).   Their modernization was rapid and self directed, and this brings us round to the second issue with your brilliant post - no one "adapts" to culture without help...no one, not even the people within the culture.  Just as we teach our own children the rules, and our own underclasses their place - we also treat the outlier to a hefty dose of culture.  In the case of african americas (and koreans in the case of japan), we taught them all about our heavy equipment, and the backbone of our economy (lelz).  It wasn't their insistence that they be seen as different but our own that leaves them as such today...and if you ask any black kid in america his nationality...I'm pretty sure he's going to tell you that he;s american..because he is.  Nationality, not race, you fucking idiot.  That a person is african american is the cognitive equivalent of being iorish american, german american, polish merican., or a korean under japanese occupation...etc.  None of us gave up those identities to be americans.  We don't have to.  I'm not sure why some black kid would have to either.   It's a bit disturbing, the specificity of proposed cultural identity that the white population is capable of - knowing the european states from which their ancestors come, even tiny little details and family cannon...and the amount of cultural bric a brac and stereotypes gleefully engaged in by the common white american......but a black kid is getting shit from a korean kid...just for being and identifying as black or african in the general.  

You're singing the song of your own cultures ancestral oppressors, and felating the same in their american incarnation today.  Guess that makes you one of the good ones. You, like many racists, pin your racism on a creative revision of history, making the racism itself a less egregious sin compared to the ignorance which underlies it. It wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't so fucking dumb.

[Shell B]

Rand Paul speaking in the senate on the behalf of the great state of kentucky says otherwise.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/231...r-children

Rand Paul talking does not a law make.

actually that is not true. mistreatment is not the qualifier it habitual mistreatment with no means of correction, and at that point the state can only take tempoary custody of the children till the parents get their crap together.

Wrong. You can definitely 'mistreat' your child once and have him or her taken away forever.

Understand this is my very point. I am showing you where we as people can OWN another person and it not be a chattle slave/roots type of relationship. If we can own our children and love them is it not possible in your mind to do this with another human being? especially if a man works along side of you as a brother? Again that is how 'uncle tom's" got their name. They were black slaves who were seen as family to white owners.

You don't fucking own your kids.

only if you close your mind and try and look at slavry in the typical black and white "slavery is bad m'kay, slavery is bad" world view. Because Again it is through our ownership of our children that we can show ownership of another human being is not an inherently evil. nor am I saying it is always good. Ownership of another is a morally netural experience. it is the circumstance in how one is obtained and treated that makes it a good or bad thing.

Now it's close-minded to think of slavery as bad? You are the longest running troll in the history of this forum or you are a truly despicable human being.

and if I don't? it doesn't mean I don't own them.

It definitely does. Try selling them and see what happens, dumbass.

1600 pennsylvania washington dc 20003
send the cops there.

Why? Did you sell your kids to Drumpf?

you REALY have no idea what you are even talking about. Some slaves are worked seasonally, other get yearly contracts and still others get life long contracts so long as they can meet quota. for 45 million people slavery is not a bad thing it is the only think keeping them alive.

Slaves don't get contracts. What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

Even if you want to play word games and will not take ownership of your children, I promise the vast majority of parents in this country will absolutely claim ownership of their kids.

Yeah, because there are weird fucking sickos in this country.

I can't believe that you actually believe all this stuff. It's not fathomable to me that a person be this much of a dimwit and still be able to type words in a semi-coherent fashion.

[Astreja]

Even if you want to play word games and will not take ownership of your children, I promise the vast majority of parents in this country will absolutely claim ownership of their kids.

Logical fallacy:  Argument from popularity.  I believe that any individual who claims ownership of any other individual is in the wrong.  No exceptions, ever.

[Drich]

Jesus christ Drich, you got all of that dead wrong..but I guess that's to be expected.  You aint white.  

Firstly, Japan modernized in the early 19th century and celebrated by colonizing Korea (and other fun stuff). 

actually they weren't modernized till after WWI, in the early 19th century they moved from their medival period skipped the renaunance and victorean ages into what was modern then which was pre industrial, but this was not a culturally supported "age" many held onto "medieval life." Even after Japan still struggled to keep up till after WWI and were given material rich countries to plunder for being on the allies side. At the beginning of WWII they were technologically superior meaning they lead the 1930's world in technology. However post WWII they made no sinfigent advances. We pre WWII were in a post industrial age and after WWII were leading the world being the first to the atomic age.

The point? we brought Japan back from 1920/1930 tech to again the world leader in tech in the 1980s. again 'by setting watchmen.' helping the people to reunify, and adopt our culture so that we may have an ally both in trade and in society. Meaning our values system are relatively the same.

 Their modernization was rapid and self directed,

If it where they why did we spend billions rebuilding that nation from 45 to 52? meaning what do you think we were doing durning that 7 year occupation? did we allow Japan to return to their "modern bishido culture" (pre war culture?) or did we westernize it?

and this brings us round to the second issue with your brilliant post - no one "adapts" to culture without help...no one,

what are yout talking about? I made several examples of individuals spanning the gap, but groups generally do not as they use each other as a cultural crutch. I even pointed out there are two types of korean people that migrate over. those who want to recreate korea here and those who want to assimilate. The ones who assimilate are seen as equals because they give up the old ways and adapt the american culture, while the others tend to isolate themselves into small social sects and are not seen as equals as they can not fully contribute to society.

not even the people within the culture.  Just as we teach our own children the rules, and our own underclasses their place - we also treat the outlier to a hefty dose of culture. 

actually you can only teach to the willing. to everyone else you simply demonstrate your culture. can you accept someone who kill and eat your dog if he got out on to another man's property as an equal?

In the case of african americas (and koreans in the case of japan), we taught them all about our heavy equipment, and the backbone of our economy (lelz).  It wasn't their insistence that they be seen as different but our own that leaves them as such today...and if you ask any black kid in america his nationality...I'm pretty sure he's going to tell you that he;s american..because he is.  Nationality, not race, you fucking idiot. 

guess you never spent 15 years working in the innercity.. the term you are looking for is African or black american sport. why? "because we obey our rules first."

That a person is african american is the cognitive equivalent of being iorish american, german american, polish merican., or a korean under japanese occupation...etc.  None of us gave up those identities to be americans.

 Omg.. ever hear of Ellis island moron? what happened on ellis island?
http://origins.osu.edu/review/coming-america-contribute
The above light broaches the subject by saying old world hostilities and grevieances were abolished in the 'melting pot' where indivisual's religions, nationalaities and nationalities were erased and forced to conform to the American way of life.

Other books on the subject matter go into great detail from reassigning family names, to splitting up large families assigning one to live in NYC and another group from the same Family to boston or chicago. the would take family bibles, pictures, histories crests, real anything that tied the imigrants to the old country. why? because they were to all be melted down and smelted into americans. NOT German Americans or Korean Americans ect. That is the LAST thing the government wanted because when we went to war with europe and this german american was allowed to keep his deuche-i-ness then he would be more likely to turn coat, or maybe his son would be more likly to turn coat, and maybe take a "knee" rather than charge the german lines like the rest of his unit.

If you still don't think white america did not get ethnically cleansed then clearly you do not know what you are talking about. sure there were hold overs as in a little italy or china town but this I am an itialian first BS does not fly here nationally. Only strict islamists and "African" americans do that on a national level. to which is why I say, as a group they will never be seen as an equal. Indivisual sure all day every day.

For an example I have to jamacian guys working for me. one is hardcore rasta the other great laid back American man. the Rasta is rasta first, then black then last but not least american. he was not american unless the government owed him something. He was an employee for 7+ years and "we" (wife and I) went through it all. with him. his religious group turned on him (because he was on probation and could not light up, and then we asked him not to smoke/weed at work) his family turned on him and we helped him out set him up with an apartment, talked with him hours on end and on and on his needs went. for like 5 years he was falling apart at the seem because he couldn't be mr rasta man. probation ran out then he went full tilt back into his community, and as a statement to us he took two weeks of or as the white man say "no call no show for two weeks without saying anything" just to "let da boss know he not da boss of me." let him go and just so happened another man from jamaica filled his spot (most qualified) This recent hurrican I gave him an extra day off to get his house in order and he was worried about his job. Told no worries just dig out from the storm nothing going on here, he came in anyways just to make sure nothing needed to be done at the shop first.

This guy has been here less than 6months and I see him and an indivisual equal if not surpassing some of the other 'white douche bags' I have working for me.

The point? one man left his past to live here as an american while another want to force rasta culture into his job/into my industry. Sorry, but it does not work that way. I can not perform nor my company can not perform through the rules of Rastafarianism and make a profit. So I can not see the first guy or give the first guy the same respect I give to the second guy.

We don't have to. 

again upunit europe unified we absolutly did have to segergate and erase indivisual 'white culture' and homognize everyone into "americans" This taking a knee BS personifies why we must be one people and not several in one nation.. Again read the artical is explains why they did erase or the government did it's best to erase the past of the white immigrants.

I'm not sure why some black kid would have to either. 

to be seen as an equal. to lay the same sacrifice upon the alter of a united/one people nation. to give up the right to personal idenity and become part of one nation. to simply be an american and nothing else first.

 It's a bit disturbing, the specificity of proposed cultural identity that the white population is capable of - knowing the european states from which their ancestors come, even tiny little details and family cannon...and the amount of cultural bric a brac and stereotypes gleefully engaged in by the common white american....

Read your history moron the vast majority of that was taken away, everyone comming through ellis island unless very rich when through an american homogenization process.

..but a black kid is getting shit from a korean kid...just for being and identifying as black or african in the general.  

yeah that's raceism because someone representing less than 6% of the population has majority control to oppressor mandate anything... but as an american speaking to another american or an american first speaking to something else first I can explain why it is me being literally 1 generation out side of slavery and the first of my generation born in this country is not only accepted in the culture but seen as an equal even though I have been told I look like a fat mexican or a fat indian.

You're singing the song of your own cultures ancestral oppressors, and felating the same in their american incarnation today.  Guess that makes you one of the good ones.  You, like many racists, pin your racism on a creative revision of history, making the racism itself a less egregious sin compared to the ignorance which underlies it.  It wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't so fucking dumb.

I can cite or provide at least three different links to every position in history I ave represented here. I read alot of stuff. I observe people. and I have live the racial divide you morons are just now discovering my whole life. I know these water and i know the two possible outcomes. And I know we are headed for the wrong one because people like you do not know real documented history. if you do, then like I did please provide links to your version of things... If you can't then maybe take a look at who the revisionist really is... The guy who can provide historical fact.. or the guy spouting popular belief but can only find blogs and commentary on your subject matter.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think it;s amusing that you..for example, consider yourself a "we", and that "we" were responsible for Japans innovation in manufacturing in the 80's.  One wonders why we all have to learn TPS and 5S now, if "we" taught that to "them".  

Meanwhile, your imagining that the empire of japan circa 1930-40 was anything -other- than a fully modernized (and world leading innovator) is blatantly ridiculous.  We spent money repairing japans infrastructure because we'd recently devastated it, numbskull.  I think it;s hilarious that you feel that japan was only "westernized" postwar...when they had been seeking and engineering such recognition since before their big coming out party of the Russo Japanese war in '05.  By the time WW2 begins they were already well established as a westernized nation.  They actively sought to be so, and to be a white(er) nation while they were at it.  Not like the rest of them..koreans and such.  Emulating colonial authority structures was the entire point.........

Fuck it, fuck it, why am I explaining this to you?  You'll insist on some alternative history that supports your racism, where the white man civilized the yellow savages.  Good boy.  

actually you can only teach to the willing. to everyone else you simply demonstrate your culture. can you accept someone who kill and eat your dog if he got out on to another man's property as an equal?

Gibberish or a seizure?  

guess you never spent 15 years working in the innercity.. the term you are looking for is African or black american sport. why? "because we obey our rules first."

-and?  I'm a white american, and an irish american.  Nobody's telling me to tone down my whiteness or all the green.  

 Omg.. ever hear of Ellis island moron? what happened on ellis island?
http://origins.osu.edu/review/coming-america-contribute
The above light broaches the subject by saying old world hostilities and grevieances were abolished in the 'melting pot' where indivisual's religions, nationalaities and nationalities were erased and forced to conform to the American way of life.

You mean semi-literate american civil servants who couldn;t properly spell a name?  Yeah, still happens.  

Other books on the subject matter go into great detail from reassigning family names, to splitting up large families assigning one to live in NYC and another group from the same Family to boston or chicago. the would take family bibles, pictures, histories crests, real anything that tied the imigrants to the old country. why? because they were to all be melted down and smelted into americans. NOT German Americans or Korean Americans ect. That is the LAST thing the government wanted because when we went to war with europe and this german american was allowed to keep his deuche-i-ness then he would be more likely to turn coat, or maybe his son would be more likly to turn coat, and maybe take a "knee" rather than charge the german lines like the rest of his unit.

If you still don't think white america did not get ethnically cleansed then clearly you do not know what you are talking about. sure there were hold overs as in a little italy or china town but this I am an itialian first BS does not fly here nationally. Only strict islamists and "African" americans do that on a national level. to which is why I say, as a group they will never be seen as an equal. Indivisual sure all day every day.

Everybody fucking run for it...we're being white genocided!  Drich, -you- see them as somehow not-or-less american.  You insist that this is their fault.  It isn't..it's just you.  If people like you would stop thinking thoughts like yours...then they wouldn't be seen as different.  

Your inability to recognize a difference between cultural syncretism and ethnic cleansing is just another example of the same thing that leads you to believe that slavery and employment are the same things.  

For an example I have to jamacian guys working for me. one is hardcore rasta the other great laid back American man. the Rasta is rasta first, then black then last but not least american. he was not american unless the government owed him something. He was an employee for 7+ years and "we" (wife and I) went through it all. with him. his religious group turned on him (because he was on probation and could not light up, and then we asked him not to smoke/weed at work) his family turned on him and we helped him out set him up with an apartment, talked with him hours on end and on and on his needs went. for like 5 years he was falling apart at the seem because he couldn't be mr rasta man. probation ran out then he went full tilt back into his community, and as a statement to us he took two weeks of or as the white man say "no call no show for two weeks without saying anything" just to "let da boss know he not da boss of me." let him go and just so happened another man from jamaica filled his spot (most qualified) This recent hurrican I gave him an extra day off to get his house in order and he was worried about his job. Told no worries just dig out from the storm nothing going on here, he came in anyways just to make sure nothing needed to be done at the shop first.

This guy has been here less than 6months and I see him and an indivisual equal if not surpassing some of the other 'white douche bags' I have working for me.

The point? one man left his past to live here as an american while another want to force rasta culture into his job/into my industry. Sorry, but it does not work that way. I can not perform nor my company can not perform through the rules of Rastafarianism and make a profit. So I can not see the first guy or give the first guy the same respect I give to the second guy.

How much time do you spend assessing your ethnic equals and inferiors?  

again upunit europe unified we absolutly did have to segergate and erase indivisual 'white culture' and homognize everyone into "americans" This taking a knee BS personifies why we must be one people and not several in one nation.. Again read the artical is explains why they did erase or the government did it's best to erase the past of the white immigrants.

Oh for fucks sake, you wanna talk football?  Pass. 

to be seen as an equal. to lay the same sacrifice upon the alter of a united/one people nation. to give up the right to personal idenity and become part of one nation. to simply be an american and nothing else first.

I'm not sure that being seen as an equal by you is really all that enticing.  

Read your history moron the vast majority of that was taken away, everyone comming through ellis island unless very rich when through an american homogenization process.

"Ethnic cleansing" indeed........

yeah that's raceism because someone representing less than 6% of the population has majority control to oppressor mandate anything... but as an american speaking to another american or an american first speaking to something else first I can explain why it is me being literally 1 generation out side of slavery and the first of my generation born in this country is not only accepted in the culture but seen as an equal even though I have been told I look like a fat mexican or a fat indian.

You aren't talking about america or americans.  You're talking about black people.  Some black americans..apparently, you see as less american, and inferior for what you perceive to be their cultural blackness.  

Yeah.........that's racism.  You don't have a problem owning slavery, I don't see why you'd try to negotiate here.  

I can cite or provide at least three different links to every position in history I ave represented here. I read alot of stuff. I observe people. and I have live the racial divide you morons are just now discovering my whole life. I know these water and i know the two possible outcomes. And I know we are headed for the wrong one because people like you do not know real documented history. if you do, then like I did please provide links to your version of things... If you can't then maybe take a look at who the revisionist really is... The guy who can provide historical fact.. or the guy spouting popular belief but can only find blogs and commentary on your subject matter.

You should read other stuff.