HELP!! how do i respond to this??

[kakarot123]

thanks a lot guys. i gave him some powerfull arguments, i will wait for his respond. i will keep you updated!

[brewer]

thanks a lot guys. i gave him some powerfull arguments, i will wait for his respond. i will keep you updated!

Can we interest you in an introduction thread?

Ya kind of owe us. Do it, do it, do it!

[Brian37]

HELP!! How do i respond to this?

So, i got into an argument with a fellow about God and his existence. And i asked him to give me an logical, rational reason that God exists.
He said "The simple fact that i need to have a reason, that our discussion has a purpose".
So i asked him to elaborate and he basically said: "Our discussion would have no purpose if god wont exist, our discussion purpose its life, this is what we want from this discussion, this is what we want this disscussion to teach us, to have life. If God wont exist (the eternal life), our discussion wont serve a purpose, because everything we would do, we will get to DEAD. But the purpose is life ( life afterlife, eternal life), who gives eternal life? God, therfore God HAS TO EXIST".

His elaborate answer was this: "For truth to exist, there has to exist someting that is not true, like saying: for something blue to exist, there most exist something that is not blue. If not, it wouldnt make any sense to say that something its blue.Why we need to have truth as the purpose, and not the untruth/not true? Not because we see that that thing its doing good to us?Ex: why u say smoking its bad? But now the big problem comes.. what does it trully mean to exist? because the faithfull people say that a true living with God its beyond Dead. For christians, that its heaven, so, good for them its that truth, which help you get to that place. For materialistic people, those who belive that this is all the life we have, the good is that, that help them live a longer life. so which one is right? if you take materialistic people, why is their concept not good about life? Because in their conception, every life its sorted to dead, the only chance of a materialistc guy to live its to pass his genes. so the purpose of our discussion it not the truth, its dead, it has no purpose you could say. But if you take christians, where life its eternal, THEN to obtain that eternal life you must follow the path=> our purpose its the truth - truth exists - truth its necesary - the usefull things are good -good thing give life -our purpose its life - this discussion has a meaning. Who gives eternal life? GOD. 1+1=2 - God is necesairy to exist.

HOW DO I RESPOND TO HIS?? btw sorry for my english

First off he assumes he has the correct answer, but he has no universal unbias answer. All religions work this way.

"Allah is real because the Koran says so."
"Yahweh is real because the Torah and Talmud say so."
"Brahama is real because the Hindu Bhagavad Gita and Vedas say so."
"Buddha is the only path to wisdom because Buddhists say so."

OR, it could be that humans get handed down the religions of their parents from birth for the most part.

By their logic Thor is real because we observe lightening. NONSENSE.

The universe is full of an estimated 2 TRILLION galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of suns each. The universe is 13.8 billion years old. Our planet is 4 billion years old. Our human species in it's current form is ONLY about 2 to 300 thousand years old. 

Does it make sense to you that "all that" time was wasted just to get to us? NO, ok then, nothing to argue with theis person with. He's simply stuck on superstition, a mere desire to have a sky parent.

Even with Hinduism and Buddhism, those are also mere made up social norms parents hand down to their children. Religion is nothing more than a reflection of ourselves, in comic book form.

But the easiest way to watch them stutter and scatter like a cockroach is to say, "Fine, if you think you got it right get it it a lab and have your findings independently peer reviewed."

[Pat Mustard]

thanks a lot guys. i gave him some powerfull arguments, i will wait for his respond. i will keep you updated!

And if all that doesn't work you can use the good old tried and tested Sam Johnson System (patent expired) method of refuting gobshitology.

[brewer]

OP, the guy you're specking with has had a god lobotomy. Let him go to the sanitarium.

[Simon Moon]

Tell him that he hasn't proven anything through his word salad.  Unless he can provide hard, empirical, evidence for god's existence, he is merely relying upon his personal, fallible experience of religious faith that is merely a belief not based on proof.

But how can i argue with his logic when he says that our discussion has no meaning if God dosent exist because God is eternal life and truth..the one thing that we need to achive??

His entire argument is simply an unsupported assertion, based on his presupposition that a god must exist.

All he is doing it saying, "I can't understand how "X" can exist without my god to explain it, so my god must exist".

[pocaracas]

Hey man! Welcome to the forum!

I know you've already answered the guy.... but... let me have some fun, too

HELP!! How do i respond to this?

So, i got into an argument with a fellow about God and his existence. And i asked him to give me an logical, rational reason that God exists.
He said "The simple fact that i need to have a reason, that our discussion has a purpose".
So i asked him to elaborate and he basically said: "Our discussion would have no purpose if god wont exist, our discussion purpose its life, this is what we want from this discussion, this is what we want this disscussion to teach us, to have life. If God wont exist (the eternal life), our discussion wont serve a purpose, because everything we would do, we will get to DEAD. But the purpose is life ( life afterlife, eternal life), who gives eternal life? God, therfore God HAS TO EXIST".

All discussions have the purpose of hashing out ideas between, at least, two parties.
What does the afterlife have to do with it?! Oh, because it's useful and not everyone can cope with the assertion that a discussion would serve no other purpose.
I guess the person you're talking to thinks himself to be very clever, huh?
When presented with some sort of gotcha argument, it's usually the way words are erroneously used (but not totally erroneously) that help baffle us..

Let's look at the usage of the word "true", here...

His elaborate answer was this: "For truth to exist, there has to exist someting that is not true, like saying: for something blue to exist, there most exist something that is not blue. If not, it wouldnt make any sense to say that something its blue.

Ask yourself, what exactly is truth? What does it mean for something to be true?
In a nutshell, truth is a quality of a particular statement... a sort of metadata of the statement.
If the statement aligns with reality, then it's truth quality is okayed. The statement is then true.
A true statement is one that aligns with reality.

An untrue statement is one that doesn't align with reality.
If people were incapable of lying, the truth quality of any statement wouldn't be required. Everything anyone would say would align with reality.... to the best of each person's ability.

Regardless of the possibility for untrue statements, the statement that something is blue would convey information regarding the color of that something. That information should have its value, in whatever context it is being used.

Why we need to have truth as the purpose, and not the untruth/not true? Not because we see that that thing its doing good to us?Ex: why u say smoking its bad? But now the big problem comes..

Truth as purpose?
If you wish to convey accurate information, you will be truthful.
If not, then your purpose is deception.

what does it trully mean to exist?

To exist is to be present in reality.

because the faithfull people say that a true living with God its beyond Dead.

WHAT?! What does this have to do with anything?!

For christians, that its heaven, so, good for them its that truth, which help you get to that place.

This guy's autocorrect sucks!
According to him, for Christians, heaven is what it truly means to exist... :head-scratch:... is that it?
And truth is the good that helps them get there?

Believers will believe the darnest things...

For materialistic people, those who belive that this is all the life we have, the good is that, that help them live a longer life.

And, guess what?!
That which helps an individual live a longer life, within a social environment, is that which helps the most other equally social individuals within the first's group or groups (we humans do tend to belong to more than one social group). How can a group develop without some trust among it's members? How can trust exist, if one is constantly assuming the others to be lying, just as the self would, under this guy's imaginary scenario?

so which one is right?

Whichever aligns with reality.

if you take materialistic people, why is their concept not good about life? Because in their conception, every life its sorted to dead, the only chance of a materialistc guy to live its to pass his genes.

That seems to align with the observed reality, yes.

so the purpose of our discussion it not the truth, its dead, it has no purpose you could say.

huh?!
What did I say above? "All discussions have the purpose of hashing out ideas between, at least, two parties."
Individuals may die... but ideas can live on, while someone remembers them, while someone passes them on.

But if you take christians, where life its eternal, THEN to obtain that eternal life you must follow the path

Christians certainly believe that there is some sort of an eternal life, after the death of our mortal bodies.... however that is not necessarily aligning with reality.
It is a mere belief. Wishful thinking.
Thus far, since the inception of Christians, since the inception of writing, where ideas truly do live on forever, no account of such an afterlife has aligned with reality, it seems. It has never left the realm of wishful thinking.

=> our purpose its the truth

Your purpose, as a religious person, is to propagate and perpetuate the idea that the religion is presenting a true view of reality. But does it really?

- truth exists - truth its necesary

Yes, truth exists as metadata. It is necessary, because it is known that people can make statements that don't align with reality.

- the usefull things are good

Sure... let's give that away as new words that haven't even been introduced in this context and assume they're just filler.

In reality, they serve the purpose of instilling a sense that the speaker is saying a series of true statements.

-good thing give life

Things don't need to be good to give life.
Weeds and bacteria might be prime examples of the opposite of that statement.

-our purpose its life

Is it?
Any given species on Earth is drawn, by instinct, to self-preservation and self-perpetuation. That is the ultimate purpose: Keep the species alive.
It does have a slight side-effect that species don't remain the same, so they end up evolving into what we'd call different species.

- this discussion has a meaning.

Repetition... sigh...

Who gives eternal life?

Who?! It's a who now?? Where did that come from?!!?!

GOD. 1+1=2 - God is necesairy to exist.

So... this guy just made up a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?
(I know this solution was made up a long long time ago, but it amounts to the same.)

Enjoy.
I did my best to translate word salad into comprehensible speech. maybe I made some wrong assumptions along the way... I don't know...

[kakarot123]

Dude, that was awsome and well put.Thank you and congratulations

[The Valkyrie]

Ask him if this "reasoning" applies to just his god, or to all of them.

If he says only his, then ask what his justification for such a statement is. Then call him out for special pleading.