Poll: You're in the Prisoner's Dilemma.

[shadow]

I would testify. I'd only be relatively certain the other person wouldn't.

[Edwardo Piet]

I think snitching is often morally correct. In my experience a lot of the people who complain about grassing on people, are criminals or violent people who deserve to be grassed on

[Jackalope]

I wouldn't make the deal, and if my "business partner" did, he better watch his back when we're both out.

Snitches get stitches.

You're not supposed to be able to get vengeance on them, though. I should clarify this in the question. That's a variant of the problem called the Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma, where you get to play the thing over and over, so you can punish the other person if they betray you.

Clearly, you're taking my answer far more seriously than I did.

[shadow]

I think snitching is often morally correct. In my experience a lot of the people who complain about grassing on people, are criminals or violent people who deserve to be grassed on

Really good point. We establish a social norm against in many groups because otherwise people will be very inclined to snitch, weakening the rest of the group. I think it's an example of "mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon" (to quote Hardin from The Tragedy of the Commons)

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah. And what if the morally correct answer is the unpopular or "anti-social" one?

Racism used to be common, and the norm, and when people spoke out against racism that was initially unpopular, but it was certainly morally correct to speak out against. It's not that racism used to be okay but became morally correct once the norm changed, it has always been wrong and moral progress has been made.

[Catholic_Lady]

Uh oh, objective morality?

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes, I believe in objective morality.

[shadow]

Yeah. And what if the morally correct answer is the unpopular or "anti-social" one?

Racism used to be common, and the norm, and when people spoke out against racism that was initially unpopular, but it was certainly morally correct to speak out against. It's not that racism used to be okay but became morally correct once the norm changed, it has always been wrong and moral progress has been made.

But.... I would say the reason that ratting on someone goes against a societal norm is different from why racism used to be a norm. I think snitching is, and always will be, unpopular because it is an individual's act to weaken a group for personal gain. Unless we see some Orwellian abolition of groups and families, no one's going to like snitches. And frankly I don't think that would be a good thing: perhaps if you take a objective approach it's more fair, but from the perspective of an individual I would be miserable were I unable to trust people. As humans we from birth weave relationships to create trust, to give ourselves leverage and power and support. It's a mutually beneficial process.

Also I think it would be impossible to move away from this model because there's something of an evolution towards the power lying with groups that could effectively consolidate it. Look at the 2 party system in America, or huge corporations like Walmart. As long as there is power in monopoly or oligopoly, these groups will prevail and write rules and norms that favour themselves.

[Nay_Sayer]

Testify, I'll deal with that rat in jail when I see him.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah. And what if the morally correct answer is the unpopular or "anti-social" one?

Racism used to be common, and the norm, and when people spoke out against racism that was initially unpopular, but it was certainly morally correct to speak out against. It's not that racism used to be okay but became morally correct once the norm changed, it has always been wrong and moral progress has been made.

But.... I would say the reason that ratting on someone goes against a societal norm is different from why racism used to be a norm. I think snitching is, and always will be, unpopular because it is an individual's act to weaken a group for personal gain. Unless we see some Orwellian abolition of groups and families, no one's going to like snitches. And frankly I don't think that would be a good thing: perhaps if you take a objective approach it's more fair, but from the perspective of an individual I would be miserable were I unable to trust people. As humans we from birth weave relationships to create trust, to give ourselves leverage and power and support. It's a mutually beneficial process.

Also I think it would be impossible to move away from this model because there's something of an evolution towards the power lying with groups that could effectively consolidate it. Look at the 2 party system in America, or huge corporations like Walmart. As long as there is power in monopoly or oligopoly, these groups will prevail and write rules and norms that favour themselves.

Yes I agree that snitching will always be unpopular. But my point is that something can be wrong regardless of popularity. I was not saying that racism and snitching are similar in any ways irrelevant to my point.