Verse 42:23 and how to interpret it, disciplines of interpreting Quran.

[chimp3]

The Mystic Knight / Atlas Rivalry:

[LadyForCamus]

Up to you bro.

I'm not the one making the claim. You are.

Burden of proof is yours.

MK can’t even present a logically valid and sound argument, let alone proof of god.  The irony is that every unevidenced assertion he has ever made has been pointed out to him as such, but for some weird reason he continues to insist he’s provided ‘proof’.

[Abaddon_ire]

I'm not the one making the claim. You are.

Burden of proof is yours.

MK can’t even present a logically valid and sound argument, let alone proof of god.  The irony is that every unevidenced assertion he has ever made has been pointed out to him as such, but for some weird reason he continues to insist he’s provided ‘proof’.

Proof? He seems to be unable to provide anything of that nature. I am not asking that he barf it all again, a link would do. Even that seems to be beyond him. 

He claims he will start a new thread in the AM, so we shall see. My expectations are low.

[LadyForCamus]

No need to be bothered wading through his text walls of meaningless blather. I can paraphrase every attempt at an argument made by MK right here:

1. If objective value exists, then Allah exists ( non-sequitur)

2. Objective value exists (unevidenced/unsupported assertion)

3. Therefore, god exists (wtf?!)

And then, when we object to premise 2., and ask him to demonstrate its truth, he shoots back with, “you guys just don’t want to believe, but deep down you know I’m right.”

Epic fail on every level, 100% of the time.

[Abaddon_ire]

No need to be bothered wading through his text walls of meaningless blather.  I can paraphrase every attempt at an argument made by MK right here:

1. If objective value exists, then Allah exists ( non-sequitur)

2. Objective value exists (unevidenced/unsupported assertion)

3. Therefore, god exists (wtf?!)

And then, when we object to premise 2., and ask him to demonstrate its truth, he shoots back with, “you guys just don’t want to believe, but deep down you know I’m right.”

Epic fail on every level, 100% of the time.

Oh, right. It's that useless malformed idea. 

Well he says he will start a thread on it. Why he could not provide a link in this one is beyond me.

Let him say his piece and I will judge it on it's merits or lack thereof.

[drfuzzy]

In the course of human history  there have been some 30,000 religions. None have presented any evidence.

Every religion I have studied so far briefly with so little scratching of the surface of their philosophy have proven God in some way or another. 

1. Native Americans proved God.
2. Japanese concept of God is proven through some avenues they very well prove.
3. Christians have proven God.
4. Jews have proven God.
5. Muslims have proven God.
6. Taoism proves God through the path to him.
7. Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates all prove God through the concept of beauty, goodness, and justice in a thorough detailed dialogue that just requires a little reflection.
8. Quran has proven God.
9. Bible has proven God.

I am not sure of Buddism will have to study the few sects that are monotheistic and emphasize Buddah did teach those teachings and see if there are proofs of God within those sects.

You're talking philosophy and fantasy, not proof.  Arguments that we hear, like "God must exist because humans have had many gods" carry any weight at all.  We keep telling you that no philosophy, no stories, no books, no "revelations", no "I feel him in my heart, I feel his leading" constitutes PROOF.  It's all circular talking about a fantasy.  No book can prove god.  No religious leader has ever proven that a God exists.

If there was a god, it could prove its own existence.  If it can't, then there is no reason to assume it exists.  If a deity founded a religion, there would be only one religion.  There would be no arguments about interpretation of - - whatever instructions it chose to leave.  And there certainly would never be people killing each other over which imaginary friend was the right one.  

There is no acceptable proof of any deity in human history.  Your list of "proof" is completely absurd.

Let's fix this:  
1. Native Americans prayed to gods.
2. Japanese have the concept of a god.
3. Christians pray to Jehovah/Yahweh/Jesus and sometimes Mary and Saints.
4. Jews had Jehovah/Yahweh/Elohim and made up stories about how their war god was greater than other war gods.
5. Muslims pray to Allah and think Mohammed was special.  
6. Taoism has a concept of god -- vaguely -- but is more behavioral teaching.
7. Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates rejected the Hellenic pantheon but referred to plural "gods" - people still argue about what that means.  They worshiped logic and philosophy.
8. Quran contains stories about Allah and instructions from Mohammed.
9. Bible contains stories about Yahweh and instructions (supposedly from) Jesus, Paul, and some early church leaders.  

The tendency of uneducated humans to create a god comes from a need to control and explain their environment.  Humans are creators, so there must have been a creator.
The weather was bad, so whoever controls the weather must be angry.  We make up gods because we make up stories.  -- And if you create a list like the one above to assert that
they have ALL proved that a deity exists, then you are actually a polytheist.  Because you are putting forth the premise that ALL of these religions prove god exists.  If this is so, 
Thor, Odin, Athena, KwanYin, Zoroaster, Marduk, Mithras, Osiris, Cerunnos, Briged, Artemis, Horus, Ra, Brahma, Shiva, and nearly 5000 others exist.  

And not a single one of 'em has ever showed up to say hi.

[The Valkyrie]

Here's the thing, though, MK.

You say the knowledge is too complicated for us. Then why send us the knowledge in the first place?

[Abaddon_ire]

Every religion I have studied so far briefly with so little scratching of the surface of their philosophy have proven God in some way or another. 

1. Native Americans proved God.
2. Japanese concept of God is proven through some avenues they very well prove.
3. Christians have proven God.
4. Jews have proven God.
5. Muslims have proven God.
6. Taoism proves God through the path to him.
7. Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates all prove God through the concept of beauty, goodness, and justice in a thorough detailed dialogue that just requires a little reflection.
8. Quran has proven God.
9. Bible has proven God.

I am not sure of Buddism will have to study the few sects that are monotheistic and emphasize Buddah did teach those teachings and see if there are proofs of God within those sects.

You're talking philosophy and fantasy, not proof.  Arguments that we hear, like "God must exist because humans have had many gods" carry any weight at all.  We keep telling you that no philosophy, no stories, no books, no "revelations", no "I feel him in my heart, I feel his leading" constitutes PROOF.  It's all circular talking about a fantasy.  No book can prove god.  No religious leader has ever proven that a God exists.

If there was a god, it could prove its own existence.  If it can't, then there is no reason to assume it exists.  If a deity founded a religion, there would be only one religion.  There would be no arguments about interpretation of - - whatever instructions it chose to leave.  And there certainly would never be people killing each other over which imaginary friend was the right one.  

There is no acceptable proof of any deity in human history.  Your list of "proof" is completely absurd.

Let's fix this:  
1. Native Americans prayed to gods.
2. Japanese have the concept of a god.
3. Christians pray to Jehovah/Yahweh/Jesus and sometimes Mary and Saints.
4. Jews had Jehovah/Yahweh/Elohim and made up stories about how their war god was greater than other war gods.
5. Muslims pray to Allah and think Mohammed was special.  
6. Taoism has a concept of god -- vaguely -- but is more behavioral teaching.
7. Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates rejected the Hellenic pantheon but referred to plural "gods" - people still argue about what that means.  They worshiped logic and philosophy.
8. Quran contains stories about Allah and instructions from Mohammed.
9. Bible contains stories about Yahweh and instructions (supposedly from) Jesus, Paul, and some early church leaders.  

The tendency of uneducated humans to create a god comes from a need to control and explain their environment.  Humans are creators, so there must have been a creator.
The weather was bad, so whoever controls the weather must be angry.  We make up gods because we make up stories.  -- And if you create a list like the one above to assert that
they have ALL proved that a deity exists, then you are actually a polytheist.  Because you are putting forth the premise that ALL of these religions prove god exists.  If this is so, 
Thor, Odin, Athena, KwanYin, Zoroaster, Marduk, Mithras, Osiris, Cerunnos, Briged, Artemis, Horus, Ra, Brahma, Shiva, and nearly 5000 others exist.  

And not a single one of 'em has ever showed up to say hi.

Why does god hate amputees? Any amount of prayers, but no regrown limbs whichever god one follows.

[GrandizerII]

No need to be bothered wading through his text walls of meaningless blather.  I can paraphrase every attempt at an argument made by MK right here:

1. If objective value exists, then Allah exists ( non-sequitur)

2. Objective value exists (unevidenced/unsupported assertion)

3. Therefore, god exists (wtf?!)

And then, when we object to premise 2., and ask him to demonstrate its truth, he shoots back with, “you guys just don’t want to believe, but deep down you know I’m right.”

Epic fail on every level, 100% of the time.

I know you're just paraphrasing here, but I remember his arguments being way too convoluted that to paraphrase is to do them injustice.

[Edwardo Piet]

Pocaracas you ask good questions but you do as if Quran didn't address them in detail and throughout.

The Quran is outdated irrelevant nonsense.