Verse 42:23 and how to interpret it, disciplines of interpreting Quran.

[Mystic]

I was accused of being deceptive with adding an interpretation in brackets "of mine", implying that is obviously implied in Quran.

In this thread, I will show some ways I apply in interpreting this verse, and perhaps it will help people interpret Quran or other scriptures with some rigorous disciplines.

When it comes to Quran by Quran, I would divide interpretation of a verse in the following way:

1. The Primary expression of the words in Quran, if a word throughout Quran is emphasized with one meaning, and there is no reason to assume otherwise, it means that very thing.
2. The context of the verses in it's surrounding, this means the context of the verses in its surrounding, what is the flow in the Surah.
3. The interconnection of verses containing the same subject.
4. The interconnection of verses with respect to the subject.

As for 3 and 4, the only difference is that the latter contains themes that are interconnected but not necessarily the exact same subject directly.  And each verse on the same subject, has to be with respect to its context and surroundings.

When it comes to sayings attributed to the Messenger, I would not dismiss no matter what scholars say about their weakness, but see if they are proven in Quran. That way, the Messenger words if true would help give insight to Quran.

The same is then true of the family of the reminder who should be given a chance to prove their case in Quran.

I will apply these disciplines with respect to verse 42:23 and we will see who is being deceptive about it.

[Minimalist]

<Yawn>

42:23 This it is which Allah announceth unto His bondmen who believe and do good works. Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee therefor, save lovingkindness among kinsfolk. And whoso scoreth a good deed We add unto its good for him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Responsive.

Who gives a shit?

[drfuzzy]

I couldn't possibly give a shit what your special little book of fables says about your imaginary friend.  Pathetic waste of time.

[Mystic]

The importance of this verse is in fact emphasized throughout all other Surahs, as it is a unique trait of the last Prophet that he asked a recompense or reward or wage for his message.

First I will quote all the verses that talk about the wage/reward/recompense the Prophet asked, then we will see the context of those verses with respect to the Surahs they are in.

Say: whatever I have asked of you as a wage, so it is for yourselves, verily my  wage is with God and he is a witness upon all things.(34:47)

Say: No wage have I asked of you for it, except for who wants to take towards his Lord a path.(25:57)

These are they who God has guided therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you a wage for it that it be only a reminder/remembrance for the worlds/nations/peoples.(6:90)

 And you do not ask them a wage for it that is only a remembrance/reminder to the worlds/nations/peoples. (12:104)

Or do you ask them a wage? Then surely the wage of your Lord is better, and he is the best of those who provide sustenance. And surely you call them to a straight path. (23:72-73)

Say: I do not ask you for it any wage - and I am not of those who affect -
That it be but a reminder/remembrance for the worlds/nations/peoples. 
And ye shall certainly the truth of it after a time.
(38:86-88)

Or do you ask them a wage so that they are over overburdened by a debt?(52:40, 68:46)

And another thing to note, while the Prophet asked a wage, other Prophets did not. We will look at the implications of this with respect to the clear meaning of the verse.

[36:21] Follow him who does not ask you for reward, and they are the followers of the right course;

Quoting past Prophets:

[26:109, 127, 145, 164, 180] And I do not ask you any reward for it; my reward is only with the Lord of the worlds:


We will look at the context of each of these verses with the respect to the Surahs they are in and see the flow.
Sufficient to say though is that this wage is not something trivial in Islam, it's been defined as taking the path to God.

And it clearly doesn't mean like closeness to God or love of our own kin, because, other Prophets would have asked that as a wage as well.

But a question remains if past Prophets were associated with chosen families, then why didn't they ask the same wage regarding their family. And it's quite simple really, their message was not finalized and their society was to prepare for other Prophets and chosen families to come.  But with revelation sealed, and the legacy of authority being that of Mohammad's message than in response to people accusing him he is power hungry or what not, it is saying, yes he in fact asks a reward and wishes for a legacy in his family, but what is this legacy?

We will see Quran emphasize throughout about chosen family lines with respect to the past, to emphasize on this wisdom, and show that the type of wage the Prophet was asking, and the fact he was finalizing revelation,  was part of a plan for the get to unite humanity on guidance from God.

The form of guidance is always never revelation alone, but with with helpers to interpret it.

We will look at the verses surrounding all the wage verses, and than see an interconnection of themes with respect to the wage of the final message to humanity.

[purplepurpose]

"Idealism vs. Realism

There are various definitions of “idealism” and “realism.”  The definitions I will be considering are these:

Idealism: behavior or thought based on a conception of things as they should be, or as one would wish them to be, with a tendency to be imaginary or visionary.
Realism: behavior or thought based on a conception of things as they are, regardless of how one wants them to be, with a tendency to be practical and pragmatic."

[brewer]

All I hear is about the same as my dogs or Charlie Brown.

[Minimalist]

[Angrboda]

---

But a question remains if past Prophets were associated with chosen families, then why didn't they ask the same wage regarding their family. And it's quite simple really, their message was not finalized and their society was to prepare for other Prophets and chosen families to come.  But with revelation sealed, and the legacy of authority being that of Mohammad's message than in response to people accusing him he is power hungry or what not, it is saying, yes he in fact asks a reward and wishes for a legacy in his family, but what is this legacy?

^^^ You're guilty of your first non sequitur.

[Brian37]

I was accused of being deceptive with adding an interpretation in brackets "of mine", implying that is obviously implied in Quran.

In this thread, I will show some ways I apply in interpreting this verse, and perhaps it will help people interpret Quran or other scriptures with some rigorous disciplines.

When it comes to Quran by Quran, I would divide interpretation of a verse in the following way:

1. The Primary expression of the words in Quran, if a word throughout Quran is emphasized with one meaning, and there is no reason to assume otherwise, it means that very thing.
2. The context of the verses in it's surrounding, this means the context of the verses in its surrounding, what is the flow in the Surah.
3. The interconnection of verses containing the same subject.
4. The interconnection of verses with respect to the subject.

As for 3 and 4, the only difference is that the latter contains themes that are interconnected but not necessarily the exact same subject directly.  And each verse on the same subject, has to be with respect to its context and surroundings.

When it comes to sayings attributed to the Messenger, I would not dismiss no matter what scholars say about their weakness, but see if they are proven in Quran. That way, the Messenger words if true would help give insight to Quran.

The same is then true of the family of the reminder who should be given a chance to prove their case in Quran.

I will apply these disciplines with respect to verse 42:23 and we will see who is being deceptive about it.

Learning a sport, or a science or a job is a "discipline". Interpreting any holy book the way you want is just you, that takes no skill whatso ever. I am quite sure other Muslims interpret the Koran differently.

[SaStrike]

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