Jesus vs Muhammad

[The Grand Nudger]

Jesus as you believe in him is heresy to muslims.  They believe he was a very significant prophet, not a god.  So..that would be like christians dying and seeing Moses.

No, it doesn't give christianity an ounce of clout, either over islam or in the general.  NDEs don;t advance the truth of a religion a single iota.

ok, then why do they dream about him?

Why do you dream about (insert your favorite fictional character here) ?

it says in the Hadith that this is possible. So if they can dream about him, why can't they hallucinate him in NDEs? If they want to dream about him, it proves he is very significant to them, so why don't they want to see him after death?

No one wants to see hell after death either, and yet they do.  "See" and "after death" only being used insomuch as we're entertaining all of this. In truth, none of them are seeing anything after death, whether they want to or not.

I don't know why anyone is expecting reliability (or cogency) from a brain near death. OFC, a great many high profile "NDE" reports arise from people who weren't even near death in the first place......so the thing isn't exactly more reliable in life either.

[GrandizerII]

Bolded mine. Probably because of the common pictures of Jesus depicting him as such. And how come non-Christians mostly don't see in their NDEs what Christian believers like you should expect them to see?

Examine these Hindu NDEs:

https://www.near-death.com/religion/hinduism.html

Do you see eternal hell or Satan or Jesus or whatever in there?

No, but they don't see Krishna in Hindu NDEs either. I just think it's strange that these top deities in their faith can be dreamt about but not seen in NDEs. If NDEs are dreams, then they should see what they dream about too. The fact that they don't makes me think that NDEs might be something more than that.

From that same link I posted:

Four black messengers came and held me.



I asked, "Where are you taking me?"

They took me and seated me near the god. My body had become small. There was an old lady sitting there. She had a pen in her hand, and the clerks had a heap of books in front of them.

I was summoned ...

One of the clerks said, "We don't need Chhajju Bania [the trader]. We had asked for Chhajju Kumhar [the potter]. Push him back and bring the other man. He [meaning Chhajju Bania] has some life remaining."

I asked the clerks to give me some work to do, but not to send me back. Yamraj was there sitting on a high chair with a white beard and wearing yellow clothes. He asked me, "What do you want?"

I told him that I wanted to stay there.

He asked me to extend my hand. I don't remember whether he gave me something or not.

Then I was pushed down [and revived].

Note the bold.

[Nay_Sayer]

Not just jesus, long blonde hair, blue eyes white jesus. Odd that.

RAmen

[GrandizerII]

Also:

Another NDE involved a Muslim woman named Suleman, who experienced a “multidimensional place of layered existences” while suffering acute necrotizing pancreatitis. She reported entering the sixth dimension—near to the “Absolute Reality of Divine Light”—where she found illuminated beings including Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.

Then she noticed an even more illuminated group of beings: Noah sitting alone, Moses with Jesus, Lord Krishna with the Buddha, and Muhammad next to the Virgin Mary with the luminous face of his son-in-law and successor, Ali, projecting out of his body. However, this account is unusual because Suleman was an Ismaili Muslim whose beliefs may have affected her NDE and involved elements that are rare or absent from mainstream Muslim NDEs.

There are both similarities and differences between Hindu and Western near-death experiences. The first major report on the phenomena was by researchers Karlis Osis and Erlendur Haraldsson in 1977. They found that about 80 percent of cases involved encounters with otherworldly beings, but they usually had a more bureaucratic nature than Western reports.

Commonly reported figures include Yamraj (the god of the dead), the yamdoots (his messengers), and Chitragupta, who consults a book to determine the balance of a person’s positive and negative karma. Hindu NDEs seem to have a recurring theme in which an individual is brought for post-death processing by a clerk and it becomes apparent that some grievous mistake has been made.

Vasudev Pandey reported being dragged by two individuals to a frightening black, naked figure. The figure flew into a rage, telling the attendants, “I told you to bring Vasudev the gardener. Our garden is drying up. You have brought Vasudev the student.”

He was taken back and woke up in his bed surrounded by his friends and family, including the gardener Vasudev, who died the next day. Pandey identified the black figure as Yamraj, Hindu god of the dead. Another man reported being brought to a waiting room and having his legs cut off at the knees when he tried to escape. When it was discovered that his name was not on the list of the dead, he was told to reattach his limbs and go back.

From this page:
https://listverse.com/2016/01/31/10-surp...r-beliefs/

[orthodox-man]

Also:

Another NDE involved a Muslim woman named Suleman, who experienced a “multidimensional place of layered existences” while suffering acute necrotizing pancreatitis. She reported entering the sixth dimension—near to the “Absolute Reality of Divine Light”—where she found illuminated beings including Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.

Then she noticed an even more illuminated group of beings: Noah sitting alone, Moses with Jesus, Lord Krishna with the Buddha, and Muhammad next to the Virgin Mary with the luminous face of his son-in-law and successor, Ali, projecting out of his body. However, this account is unusual because Suleman was an Ismaili Muslim whose beliefs may have affected her NDE and involved elements that are rare or absent from mainstream Muslim NDEs.

There are both similarities and differences between Hindu and Western near-death experiences. The first major report on the phenomena was by researchers Karlis Osis and Erlendur Haraldsson in 1977. They found that about 80 percent of cases involved encounters with otherworldly beings, but they usually had a more bureaucratic nature than Western reports.

Commonly reported figures include Yamraj (the god of the dead), the yamdoots (his messengers), and Chitragupta, who consults a book to determine the balance of a person’s positive and negative karma. Hindu NDEs seem to have a recurring theme in which an individual is brought for post-death processing by a clerk and it becomes apparent that some grievous mistake has been made.

Vasudev Pandey reported being dragged by two individuals to a frightening black, naked figure. The figure flew into a rage, telling the attendants, “I told you to bring Vasudev the gardener. Our garden is drying up. You have brought Vasudev the student.”

He was taken back and woke up in his bed surrounded by his friends and family, including the gardener Vasudev, who died the next day. Pandey identified the black figure as Yamraj, Hindu god of the dead. Another man reported being brought to a waiting room and having his legs cut off at the knees when he tried to escape. When it was discovered that his name was not on the list of the dead, he was told to reattach his limbs and go back.

From this page:
https://listverse.com/2016/01/31/10-surp...r-beliefs/

I heard that NDE with Yamraj changed. First, the man's wife gave his own testimony, saying that Yamraj was a regular woman he knew, then he said It was Yamraj. Plus, how come there are only like 2 accounts of meeting Yamraj and thousands of Jesus? And even if we see that Christians and Hindus see different deities, I still wonder about Muhammad.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're wondering why, in a culture where it can be haram to even draw a picture of mohamed, people don't report seeing mohamed..which is something they would not be expected to see in the first place. Meanwhile, the subject is absolutely uninformative as to -why- you're wondering..and no amount of seeing or not seeing mohamed or jesus changes that.

[orthodox-man]

You're wondering why, in a culture where it can be haram to even draw a picture of mohamed, people don't report seeing mohamed..which is something they would not be expected to see in the first place.  Meanwhile, the subject is absolutely uninformative as to -why- you're wondering..and no amount of seeing or not seeing mohamed or jesus changes that.

I am wondering then, if it is so bad to draw a picture or admit a Near Death Experience, why do they dream about him and brag about it when they do? Shouldn't that be taboo as well? I just don't understand that aspect.

[The Grand Nudger]

Are you asking me why the religious are irrational and inconsistent........? Bluntly, I consider both to be requirements of the abrahamic faiths. If you're really insisting on comparing your own christian faith to their muslim faith...on grounds of legitimacy or historicity, for example..the christian side of that is going to lose horribly. So that;s probably not a rational thing to do. Similarly, if you think that jesus was really real and this make christianity true then you would have to concede as much for Islam on account of Big Mo being "really real"..in order to be consistent.

Jesus loses hands down to mo precisely -because- the only place anyone ever did or does see jesus is in "visions". Mo, otoh, seems to have been traipsing all over the place burning down villages and whatnot.


Or, and this is what I would do, you can allow leeway for their irrationality and inconsistency to leave room for your own.

[GrandizerII]

Also:



From this page:
https://listverse.com/2016/01/31/10-surp...r-beliefs/

I heard that NDE with Yamraj changed. First, the man's wife gave his own testimony, saying that Yamraj was a regular woman he knew, then he said It was Yamraj. Plus, how come there are only like 2 accounts of meeting Yamraj and thousands of Jesus? And even if we see that Christians and Hindus see different deities, I still wonder about Muhammad.

So what's the conclusion you're drawing from all this, based on everything you've heard and been linked to till now?

Why are you willing to question what a Hindu man himself saw, but you don't seem to do the same for the accounts that go in your favor? And if you concede Hindus do see different deities in their NDEs, then what?

---

You're wondering why, in a culture where it can be haram to even draw a picture of mohamed, people don't report seeing mohamed..which is something they would not be expected to see in the first place.  Meanwhile, the subject is absolutely uninformative as to -why- you're wondering..and no amount of seeing or not seeing mohamed or jesus changes that.

I am wondering then, if it is so bad to draw a picture or admit a Near Death Experience, why do they dream about him and brag about it when they do? Shouldn't that be taboo as well? I just don't understand that aspect.

Because not all Muslims adhere to that taboo?

[DodosAreDead]

No, but they don't see Krishna in Hindu NDEs either. I just think it's strange that these top deities in their faith can be dreamt about but not seen in NDEs. 

As I'm sure you now know because of your more recent posts, the god of the dead or whatever in hinduism is Yamraj and his messengers are the Yamdoots, so even though Krishna is a 'top' deity, it would make no sense to see him in a NDE.  

 Plus, how come there are only like 2 accounts of meeting Yamraj and thousands of Jesus? 

Because Christians have pictures of the poor guy everywhere. Much more mindfucking going on in Christianity than Hinduism. It's all psychological. In Hinduism, not everyone has heard about Yamraj and his messengers coming to receive the dead more than a few times. The stories are often told by hopeful grandmothers in the evening during prayers or at night before bed when the grandkids come to stay with them. There's no clear consensus on how Yamraj looks. As children, hindus see him in comic books or prayer books, but he looks the way the illustrator envisions him. Ask two hindus to draw Yamraj, and you'll see highly different looking weirdos on the two papers. Ask two Christians to draw Jesus, and they'll most likely draw something similar. 

PS: Personally I like to imagine him as a large juicy scrumptious candied Yam.