porn and women

[ignoramus]

No different to watching violence at the movies... One does not lead to the other...
Unless you're fucked in the head to start with. What porn or movies or music do mass shooters watch before doing it?
Probably something unrelated...

[Rev. Rye]

I don't know about that. I feel like if someone has a propensity for sexual violence, watching a ton of porn depicting violence against women will only add fuel to their desire for it, and reinforce their objectification of women. That's what Ted Bundy said.

You do realize that Ted Bundy was trying to appeal to evangelical groups.  He converted to Christianity on his death bed, and I'm sure that helped him get in with groups that would try to help him avoid the death penalty.  Specifically with James Dobson, head of Focus on the Family.  (Apparently Serial Killers go to heaven, gays do not)

Fun fact: I had a criminology teacher who brought up the Ted Bundy and porn point. I was inspired to write up a brief paper about the subject. In fact, I have it on my hard drive:

I remember the fact that you mentioned earlier that Ted Bundy was allegedly inspired to do his crimes by pornography, and in the last lecture, you even went so far as to mention the interview he did with James Dobson before his execution. I have, in fact, read up on this one, and am somewhat familiar with it, as it deals with the intersection between two areas of my interest: the religious right and serial killers. However, I must admit that I have found a lot of holes in this idea, which are detailed below. My main source for this is Channel 4's documentary: Ted Bundy: Natural Porn Killer. If you feel like using the computer labs and watching it (since you said you don't have a computer), it is available at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yT_IsIWp0

• One major problem that the James Dobson interview is only the first time that he implicated pornography in his crimes. It would be pretty late of him to mention that important little tidbit after over ten years in prison. Another thing that further undermines the idea is that when he was arrested and his home was raided by the police, they didn't find any conventional pornography (conventional in this case meaning the kind that are made with the intent of being masturbated to.) What they did find were cheerleader and drum majorette magazines written with junior high and high school-aged girls in mind. Even as a growing boy, he actually admitted elsewhere that he didn't actually go into pornographic magazines that other boys his age would have read. There was no Playboy or Belle du Jour for Ted. He much preferred detective magazines that most likely had a plethora of Raymond Chandler imitators, and, more to the point, a lot of images like scantily clad women being rowed to their death like Shelley Winters in A Place in the Sun.In her biography of Ted Bundy, The Stranger Beside Me, Ann Rule, a true crime author who knew Ted far better than she would have liked, didn't even mention him having any sort of inclination towards porn until she got around to talking about the Dobson Tape, which leads to the next point. The fact that Ted chose to talk to an anti-porn activist alone would set off warning bells. Even Geraldo Rivera, who had earlier conducted an interview with Charlie Manson, would be a more credible interviewer. The fact that during the interview himself, Dobson actually seems to be coaching Ted, helping ease him from a state of saying “Yeah, I looked at porn when I was younger, but it had nothing to do with my crimes” into a state where his rhetoric seems to say “If it hadn't been for pornography, I'd be a heavenly person today.” The icing on the cake, however, is when Ted Bundy, stone cold psychopath that he is, actually claims to feel remorse for his victims. I rest my case.

Whether or not there is such a thing as a pornography addiction (and I believe that it's plausible that there could be), it seems pretty clear that Ted Bundy didn't have one, and any of his claims that he had one would seem to be just last-ditch attempts at gaining sympathy, and considering that even an experienced criminologist like you can repeat those claims (of course, since you have said that you are Catholic, and are probably a conservative one, I would guess that there is some confirmation bias at work), it would seem like it ended up being successful.

In retrospect, I feel I probably should have been less severe in my call-out of the guy. I like him, he's clearly intelligent, and has been studying criminology since before I was born. And yet, here he is parroting this claim about Ted Bundy uncritically that experts have shown to be unlikely for many reasons, not just because it conflicts with the facts of the case, but because Bundy, the prototypical charismatic and psychopathic serial killer, is not a reliable narrator, especially when he says things that are supposed to make him less culpable for his actions. One would think an experienced criminologist would take this into account, but, then again, he's a devout Catholic and at one point got pissed off at someone on NPR calling the Tea Party "crazy". This sort of thing requires a serious intellectual "what the Hell, hero?" It's like taking a course about the finer details of Catholicism, and the priest in charge starts talking about how Martin Luther ended up becoming a pope.

Here's the documentary I used as my source:

[J a c k]

Man, some of the positions in porn are dumb and while the girls pretend to enjoy it, it’s bullshit. If a dude gets all butthurt because his woman doesn’t want to do that position in which the vagina is now awkwardly positioned making the dick struggle to enter, then that dude is a dumbass. I doubt people actually think life is a porn movie, though. Who actually likes fake orgasms and fake screaming? Annoying, if you ask me. I tend to put porn on mute. Can’t stand, “Uh yeeess, mmm yeeeess, oh baby yes, yes, mmm yeeees, oh yeeees,” with annoying voices. I prefer real life suttle moaning, the kind that comes naturally.

Do I think it’s bad for people? Nah. It’s like asking if seeing women in bikinis at the beach is harmful, or watching The Rock lift a car is unfair to other men, or anything that people can see and compare to their own. If someone feels like their partner is lacking, they don’t need porn to tell them that. They just need an excuse, and you can find an excuse anywhere.

[Rev. Rye]

I guess that's one of the perks of being a foot fetishist; the poses aren't all that unrealistic (although footjobs are awkward, but doable), and unless you're into crush or the more BDSM side of things (neither of which I am), the most demanding thing it tends to put on women is convincing them to be barefoot in public places (or rough terrain, which, when calluses are built up and the woman is a hardcore enough barefooter, can be done)

[Amarok]

I don't know about that. I feel like if someone has a propensity for sexual violence, watching a ton of porn depicting violence against women will only add fuel to their desire for it, and reinforce their objectification of women. That's what Ted Bundy said.

Accept studies have shown the contrary. That those with tendency toward sexual violence use porn as a vent not a builder of their feelings .

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't know about that. I feel like if someone has a propensity for sexual violence, watching a ton of porn depicting violence against women will only add fuel to their desire for it, and reinforce their objectification of women. That's what Ted Bundy said.

You do realize that Ted Bundy was trying to appeal to evangelical groups.  He converted to Christianity on his death bed, and I'm sure that helped him get in with groups that would try to help him avoid the death penalty.  Specifically with James Dobson, head of Focus on the Family.  (Apparently Serial Killers go to heaven, gays do not)

So you think he was lying to appease to Christians when he said he was into violent porn? That makes no sense.

I think it's safe to assume he was telling the truth when he said he liked hardcore porn, and as we saw, it certainly didn't keep him from raping anyone...

---

No different to watching violence at the movies... One does not lead to the other...
Unless you're fucked in the head to start with. What porn or movies or music do mass shooters watch before doing it?
Probably something unrelated...

But to say watching violent porn prevents someone with a propensity to rape from actually raping, is just as silly as saying watching violent movies prevents someone with a propensity for violence from actually being violent. It seems to me, if anything, those things would reinforce the behavior on people who are already suceptible, not prevent them.

[Rev. Rye]

You do realize that Ted Bundy was trying to appeal to evangelical groups.  He converted to Christianity on his death bed, and I'm sure that helped him get in with groups that would try to help him avoid the death penalty.  Specifically with James Dobson, head of Focus on the Family.  (Apparently Serial Killers go to heaven, gays do not)

So you think he was lying to appease to Christians when he said he was into violent porn? That makes no sense.

I think it's safe to assume he was telling the truth when he said he liked hardcore porn, and as we saw, it certainly didn't keep him from raping anyone...

Given that he didn't actually have any proper porn in his possession (the Ted Bundy documentary I posted earlier points this out), was, as a free man, someone who campaigned for Republicans, and wanted to be able to have some sort of excuse for what he did that somehow made him less culpable, it actually makes more sense than one might expect. Grooming people to think he was a good and trustworthy person was as much a part of his MO as latching onto girls who looked like his girlfriend and going up to them while feigning injuries. And in this case, it worked, hook, line, and sinker.

[Catholic_Lady]

I guess I just don't think looking at porn as a teenager makes you less culpable of rape in your adult years. Seems like an odd excuse.

[Amarok]

So you think he was lying to appease to Christians when he said he was into violent porn? That makes no sense

Yes it does Bundy was a manipulative . He was trying to play on evangelical sympathies to get a release and to make it seem like like here had been "corrupted by porn " and thus it wasn't his fault(FYI he got sympathy for it) 

I think it's safe to assume he was telling the truth when he said he liked hardcore porn, and as we saw, it certainly didn't keep him from raping anyone...

Actually it isn't safe to assume that as none was found and their was no proof he even looked at porn . And as for not stopping him as i said we have no evidence he even looked at any .

[c172]

Do you think pornography generally has harmful effects on women in our society? 

Curious to know people's opinions.

I think it really depends. I have actually bought fetish modeling sets which involved nudity. It was on a site where women were selling this sort of stuff. I always thought that the classier women were truly enjoying it and not desperate for money. It can be an expression of the woman's sexuality, I think. She just has to be bold and set parameters. 

I do enjoy some rather rough porn at times, but I like to think (and do think) some women actually do like it a bit rough and sloppy and whatever else. But I have definitely seen porn that seemed sad, where the woman wasn't into it at all. And it wasn't about the action. Even throatfucking and things like that can probably be mutual, even if by definition, the woman can't orgasm by it. 

But some women get off, for whatever reason, by giving the guy what he wants, within reason. Even if it seems violent and unpleasant.