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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 3:51 pm
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 3:53 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2018 at 3:54 pm by WinterHold.)
(October 28, 2018 at 3:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You been refuted Atlas, but keep holding on to your envy, see where it will get you.
https://atheistforums.org/thread-57052-p...pid1839300
Quote:MysticKnight Wrote:
Hamzah ibn al Tayyar was reproducing some of the speeches of the father of Abu `Abd Allah (i.e. al-'Imam al-Baqir [A]) in his presence. When he reached a point the Imam (A) said: "Stop and be silent." Then he added, "When something comes to you that you don't know, your duty in such a case is nothing but to halt, to verify it and refer it to the Imam of guidance (a'immat al-huda), who will lead you to what is right, clarify that which was obscure for you and acquaint you with the truth therein. God Almighty has said:
`ask the family of the reminder, if you know not."' (16:43)
No wonder you post in an atheist forum so you don't get exposed for twisting the literal meaning of the Quran.
Real verse:
Quote: Wrote:Sura 16, Verse 43, The Quran:
https://quran.com/16/43?translations=102...,85,101,17
Dr. Ghali
And in no way did We send (even) before you, except men to whom We revealed. "So ask the population of the Remembrance, in case you (i.e. the pagan Arabs) do not know."
Muhsin Khan
And We sent not (as Our Messengers) before you (O Muhammad SAW) any but men, whom We inspired, (to preach and invite mankind to believe in the Oneness of Allah). So ask of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], if you know not.
Pickthall
And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not! -
Sahih International
And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.
Mufti Taqi Usmani
We did not send (messengers) before you other than men whom We inspired with revelation. So, ask the people (having the knowledge) of the Reminder (the earlier Scriptures), if you do not know.
Abdul Haleem
[Prophet], all the messengers We sent before you were simply men to whom We had given the Revelation: you [people] can ask those who have knowledge if you do not know.
Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
We did not send ˹messengers˺ before you ˹O Prophet˺ except mere men inspired by Us. If you ˹polytheists˺ do not know ˹this already˺, then ask those who have knowledge ˹of the Scriptures˺.
Dr. Mustafa Khattab
We did not send ˹messengers˺ before you ˹O Prophet˺ except mere men inspired by Us. If you ˹polytheists˺ do not know ˹this already˺, then ask those who have knowledge ˹of the Scriptures˺. Quote:Quote:AtlasS33 said:
Isn't preaching + spamming + spreading of false information -even if it concerned religion- is hurting the place's authenticity and also demolishing the rule of authentic debate between atheists and theists in the forum?
You are literally posting wrong translation and lie about it, using the members' general ignorance in Arabic. Advertising and doing the dirty missionary work of the Shiite institution.
The forum is literally a speaker for wrong information, taken for granted to be "authentic and real". Our OP here didn't display his opinion like everybody; he twisted and forged real text in front of everybody and advertised it to be authentic.
You spread lies and you're a disgrace; man.
If you don't respect others, have some respect for yourself.
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 4:02 pm
In almost all places where Prophets address their people as people, they use the word "Qawm".
In almost all places in where Ahl is used excluding "people of the book", it's translated as family by all translators, even when it can be interpreted as people.
I'm not debating this anymore. People do research and don't depend on translators, the dark magic has overwhelmed them.
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 4:22 pm
(October 28, 2018 at 4:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: In almost all places where Prophets address their people as people, they use the word "Qawm".
In almost all places in where Ahl is used excluding "people of the book", it's translated as family by all translators, even when it can be interpreted as people.
I'm not debating this anymore. People do research and don't depend on translators, the dark magic has overwhelmed them.
Another lie.
"Ahl" means -repeating this again- "people of". Please refer to this post which you ignored:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-57052-p...pid1839300
Quote: Wrote:MysticKnight Wrote:
Hamzah ibn al Tayyar was reproducing some of the speeches of the father of Abu `Abd Allah (i.e. al-'Imam al-Baqir [A]) in his presence. When he reached a point the Imam (A) said: "Stop and be silent." Then he added, "When something comes to you that you don't know, your duty in such a case is nothing but to halt, to verify it and refer it to the Imam of guidance (a'immat al-huda), who will lead you to what is right, clarify that which was obscure for you and acquaint you with the truth therein. God Almighty has said:
`ask the family of the reminder, if you know not."' (16:43)
No wonder you post in an atheist forum so you don't get exposed for twisting the literal meaning of the Quran.
Real verse:
Quote: Wrote: Wrote:Sura 16, Verse 43, The Quran:
https://quran.com/16/43?translations=102...,85,101,17
Dr. Ghali
And in no way did We send (even) before you, except men to whom We revealed. "So ask the population of the Remembrance, in case you (i.e. the pagan Arabs) do not know."
Muhsin Khan
And We sent not (as Our Messengers) before you (O Muhammad SAW) any but men, whom We inspired, (to preach and invite mankind to believe in the Oneness of Allah). So ask of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], if you know not.
Pickthall
And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not! -
Sahih International
And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.
Mufti Taqi Usmani
We did not send (messengers) before you other than men whom We inspired with revelation. So, ask the people (having the knowledge) of the Reminder (the earlier Scriptures), if you do not know.
Abdul Haleem
[Prophet], all the messengers We sent before you were simply men to whom We had given the Revelation: you [people] can ask those who have knowledge if you do not know.
Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
We did not send ˹messengers˺ before you ˹O Prophet˺ except mere men inspired by Us. If you ˹polytheists˺ do not know ˹this already˺, then ask those who have knowledge ˹of the Scriptures˺.
Dr. Mustafa Khattab
We did not send ˹messengers˺ before you ˹O Prophet˺ except mere men inspired by Us. If you ˹polytheists˺ do not know ˹this already˺, then ask those who have knowledge ˹of the Scriptures˺. Quote: Wrote:Quote: Wrote:AtlasS33 said:
Isn't preaching + spamming + spreading of false information -even if it concerned religion- is hurting the place's authenticity and also demolishing the rule of authentic debate between atheists and theists in the forum?
You are literally posting wrong translation and lie about it, using the members' general ignorance in Arabic. Advertising and doing the dirty missionary work of the Shiite institution.
The forum is literally a speaker for wrong information, taken for granted to be "authentic and real". Our OP here didn't display his opinion like everybody; he twisted and forged real text in front of everybody and advertised it to be authentic.
And this one:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-57052-p...pid1839432
Quote:AtlasS33 said:
Ahl doesn't mean "people"; Ahl اهل means "people of".
اهل ابليس means Satan people.
اهلك means Your people.
اهل الارض means earth's people.
"People"; not "Family".
Ahl America means "the owners of America/ people of America"..not Family !.
It doesn't mean family except if the context support it; and the context doesn't support it here, or the word "family" was used. Family is عائلة , in slang Arabic it's عيلة. No; it can't mean family in that verse. Aside from it being "not eloquent"; the context doesn't support it, and moreover the word "عائلة" was not used.
The verse didn't give a single example. It made a generalized request.
Why did you fly to another Surah in the middle of your comment? I thought you were inserting an Arab word out of thin air and stitch it to the verse ! The same case apply to it.
This is the worst stitching I ever saw..point made: you are lying and use the ignorance of members in Arabic.
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 4:29 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2018 at 4:30 pm by Mystic.)
People can research and decide who is the liar.
Harun was from the people of Moses and his family, and see the translation here:
وَاجْعَلْ لِي وَزِيرًا مِنْ أَهْلِي
Quran surah Taha 29 in english translation
Sahih International
(20:29) And appoint for me a minister from my family –
Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan,
(20:29) And appoint for me a helper from my family,
Mohammed Marmaduke William Pickthall
(20:29) Appoint for me a henchman from my folk,
Abdullah Yusuf Ali
(20:29) And give me a Minister from my family,
Mohammad Habib Shakir
(20:29) And give to me an aider from my family:
Dr. Ghali
(20:29) And make for me a counsellor of my family,
Ali Unal
(20:29) “And appoint a minister (helper) for me from my family:
Amatul Rahman Omar
(20:29) `And grant me a helper from my family,
Literal
(20:29) And make/put for me a minister/supporter from my family/relation .
Ahmed Ali
(20:29) And give me as assistant from my family
A. J. Arberry
(20:29) Appoint for me of my folk a familiar,
Abdul Majid Daryabadi
(20:29) And appoint for me a minister from my household.
Maulana Mohammad Ali
(20:29) (That) they may understand my word.
Muhammad Sarwar
(20:29) Appoint a deputy (for me) from my own people.
Hamid Abdul Aziz
(20:29) “That they may understand my saying.
Faridul Haque
(20:29) And appoint for me a viceroy from among my family.
Talal Itani
(20:29) And appoint an assistant for me, from my family.
Ahmed Raza Khan
(20:29) And appoint for me a viceroy from among my family.
Wahiduddin Khan
(20:29) and appoint for me a helper from among my family,
Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuri
(20:29) And appoint for me a helper from my family,
Ali Quli Qarai
(20:29) Appoint for me a minister from my family,
Hasan al-Fatih Qaribullah and Ahmad Darwish
(20:29) Appoint for me a minister from my family
If both were primary meanings, then it could have easily be seen as "a minister from my people", but no one but one translator translated as such.
The time it takes meaning of people is when context clearly shows that or it's irrational or impossible to see it as family.
Have a good day liar.
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 4:39 pm
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 4:43 pm
Read the context in Suratal Nahl and Suratal Anbiya and also see the Surahs between, because they are all manifesting exactly who is the Ahlul-Thikr and it's no doubt the family of Mohammad who is the family of the reminder of now.
Atlas, if what you were saying is right, verse 20:29 would have had most translators translate it as people, but family is the primary meaning, and almost all translators translated it as family.
The reason people don't see the emphasis of family of the reminder, is because of the tree of envy along with the dark sorcery.
Logic and reason, context, and themes upon themes in Quran, all prove it to mean family of the reminder as well language itself because ahl primarily means family.
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 4:55 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2018 at 4:56 pm by WinterHold.)
(October 28, 2018 at 4:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Read the ...
no gymnastics.
Answer:
Quote:14 minutes ago
https://atheistforums.org/thread-57052-p...pid1839300
https://atheistforums.org/thread-57052-p...pid1839409
You were caught lying, forging translation then blame it on dark wizards...
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 5:10 pm
Two bald men, fighting over an hairbrush. That came into my mind.
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RE: Treasures from the Houshold of guidance.
October 28, 2018 at 5:30 pm
(October 28, 2018 at 5:10 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Two bald men, fighting over an hairbrush. That came into my mind.
You used "an" and you should use "a".
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