Evidence for a god. Do you have any ?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

I need a supernatural stick.
Can you show me one ?

In your dreams.

---

I have all the evidence you ever need.

Come on down to the mountains of East Tennessee. Hike up there early in the morning stand on the edge of the cliff and listen to the birds chirping, watch the foxes darting through the grass and watch the sun rise, poking his bright little head out from behind the clouds.

You look at that and tell me the lord God doesn't exist. Go on and do it!

While others have already adressed the theme of this post.

Hello!      BTW.

I'll just add.






 If there is a diety? They got some e'splainin' ta do.

Not at work.

In what you see as "ugly", others find beauty in.

It's not the creation that's the problem in and of itself.  It's the self-determination that is instilled within us, and the misuse of it.

---

I never asserted that I would provide evidence.  Additionally, I never offered anything as evidence.  His statement assumes that I did or that it was insufficient.

To this point is is something that is on the table for consideration, but I'm not going to go in circles about something being evidence if it can't be viewed objectively.  If not, there's no point to it, because it can simply be implied that the evidence wasn't acceptable.  If it's defined ahead of time, then I have criteria for any evidence I would need to assert if I choose to.

Evidence consists of observations and experimental results that serve to support, refute, or modify a hypothesis or theory when collected and rationally scrutinized according to the scientific method. I think everyone here will agree that these are the criteria for determining if what you wish to present can be judged to be valid evidence.

Now, make your case.

We've already been through this in this thread.  If the needed evidence isn't stated as what it would need to be beforehand so that it's objective, I have 0 interest.  If you have evidence counter to it, then I would reconsider, but claim no responsibility beyond what I just stated.  What you believe or are convinced that everybody else thinks has no bearing on it, because it's not a position of authority, so I have no requirement to respond to it.  It's not because I don't care, but because it would be frivolous for me to humor the question any other way.

Now make your case.

[Rahn127]

You said if I asked for a stick, you would show me a stick.

I asked for a supernatural stick and you can't or won't show me one.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

You said if I asked for a stick, you would show me a stick.

I asked for a supernatural stick and you can't or won't show me one.

Where did I say I would "show you a supernatural stick?"

I said I would consider the request if it was objective, and I will if it sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure what a "supernatural stick" is even.

At least you are heading in the right direction with it though.   If I come across a "supernatural stick", I'll make sure to let you know so you can consider it.

[Peebothuhlu]

While others have already adressed the theme of this post.

Hello!      BTW.

I'll just add.






 If there is a diety? They got some e'splainin' ta do.

Not at work.

In what you see as "ugly", others find beauty in.

It's not the creation that's the problem in and of itself.  It's the self-determination that is instilled within us, and the misuse of it.

---

 First, that's not how language works.

 To follow up. The point of the song is that there are oodles of things that will, without a moments thought or feeling, simply result in a human's demise.... Often quite randomly seeming.. Which, if there is an over arching diety that created it all, is ultimately responsible for its creation.

'We'/'Us' have no control or input into the wasp that randomly flies into us and stings away.
The swimmer has no control over the jeelly-fish that floats into them and, again, stings away.
Not to mention the myriad parasites, diseases, internal bilogical stuff that can go wrong in the body...
Then we get to talk about how the environment at large can simply; Flood us. Burn us. Bury us. Irraditate us. Kinetically smash us. Sweep/blow us away. 

 That is the reality we live in.

Again, if there is an over arching diety? It does not care or like we humans... Nor really respect life in general, all that much.

It's not a matter of labeling things subjectivly. It's the words used in their correct, descripitve, manner describing the actions of the reality around us.

Unless... you like.. the many horrible things that abound on about and around this infintesamle littl especk of matter floating free within the great expanse of nothingess?

Not at work.

[Rahn127]

#2 If you say you need a stick, and I hand you a stick, then that's it.  It's objective.  Either I handed you a stick or I didn't.


#2 is how I operate, which is why I said I will only humor the question if it's done objectively. 

This entire line of questioning was all about providing evidence for the supernatural.
You explained in simple terms using the analogy of the stick.

I followed your instructions and asked to see a supernatural stick per your request.

If you contend that something supernatural exists, then I am asking, per your method, to see anything you deem to be supernatural.

I need supernatural (X....fill in the blank).
Either you hand me supernatural (X) or you don't.

So far you haven't.

And from your last post, it sounds as if you don't know what the supernatural is. You have no idea what a supernatural stick is and neither do I.

It's my guess you have no idea what a supernatural anything is and that is why you can't provide an example.

It's about the same as me asking you for a glebknoc.
You have no idea what a glebknoc is. Neither do I and yet you claim that glebknocs exist.

Do you see the problem here ?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

In what you see as "ugly", others find beauty in.

It's not the creation that's the problem in and of itself.  It's the self-determination that is instilled within us, and the misuse of it.

---

 First, that's not how language works.

 To follow up. The point of the song is that there are oodles of things that will, without a moments thought or feeling, simply result in a human's demise.... Often quite randomly seeming.. Which, if there is an over arching diety that created it all, is ultimately responsible for its creation.

'We'/'Us' have no control or input into the wasp that randomly flies into us and stings away.
The swimmer has no control over the jeelly-fish that floats into them and, again, stings away.
Not to mention the myriad parasites, diseases, internal bilogical stuff that can go wrong in the body...
Then we get to talk about how the environment at large can simply; Flood us. Burn us. Bury us. Irraditate us. Kinetically smash us. Sweep/blow us away. 

 That is the reality we live in.

Again, if there is an over arching diety? It does not care or like we humans... Nor really respect life in general, all that much.

It's not a matter of labeling things subjectivly. It's the words used in their correct, descripitve, manner describing the actions of the reality around us.

Unless... you like.. the many horrible things that abound on about and around this infintesamle littl especk of matter floating free within the great expanse of nothingess?

Not at work.

What's not how language works?  I would have to ask for a source for that statement. It sounds nonsensical, but I'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt so you can have an opportunity to validate it.

I would disagree with your assertion that we don't have control over random things.  We use knowledge to prepare ourselves for things.  That's one of the reasons scientific studies are necessary.

Science tells us to ignore the wasp if it is just in the general area and even calmly move away from them.  If they are where we don't want them, we know how to trap them to remove them.  If we do get stung, we know how to treat the pain and the inflicted area.  Our innate ability to self-determine ourselves and our outcomes are a marvel. 

Science tells us where to find jellyfish and when they are likely to appear.  We know how to handle them.  If one stings you, it could be fatal, but it doesn't have to be.

Things can go wrong in the body, just as things can go right.  If something goes wrong, we try and make it better.  Not because we had to, but because of our self-determination to gain knowledge and take care of our own brought us there

Sure, an environment can be dangerous.  We could be obliterated by a volcano, and some have.  By self-determination many live near volcanoes, and they even venture on to them.  We know how volcanoes occur, and we now when one is likely to erupt.  We can either stay or leave, based on our self-determination. 

I would say your poem is flawed, but you see something in it, so by your own self-determination you assume value to it.  Nobody else has to see its worth, but you thought enough of it to share it.

---

#2 If you say you need a stick, and I hand you a stick, then that's it.  It's objective.  Either I handed you a stick or I didn't.


#2 is how I operate, which is why I said I will only humor the question if it's done objectively. 

This entire line of questioning was all about providing evidence for the supernatural.
You explained in simple terms using the analogy of the stick.

I followed your instructions and asked to see a supernatural stick per your request.

If you contend that something supernatural exists, then I am asking, per your method, to see anything you deem to be supernatural.

I need supernatural (X....fill in the blank).
Either you hand me supernatural (X) or you don't.

So far you haven't.

And from your last post, it sounds as if you don't know what the supernatural is. You have no idea what a supernatural stick is and neither do I.

It's my guess you have no idea what a supernatural anything is and that is why you can't provide an example.

It's about the same as me asking you for a glebknoc.
You have no idea what a glebknoc is. Neither do I and yet you claim that glebknocs exist.

Do you see the problem here ?

Do you want a stick?  If you consider any stick evidence, then I'll gladly show you a picture, mail you one, hand you one in person, or provide a video of a stick.  Good enough?  Just let me know and then we have exhibit #1.  Deal?

[Rahn127]

Providing me with a natural stick is evidence of something natural.

Please provide me with a supernatural stick to show evidence of the supernatural.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Providing me with a natural stick is evidence of something natural.

Please provide me with a supernatural stick to show evidence of the supernatural.

What is a supernatural stick? How would a supernatural stick prove God?

I'm really not sure what you are talking about here. Maybe define what you mean more clearly.

[downbeatplumb]

You said if I asked for a stick, you would show me a stick.

I asked for a supernatural stick and you can't or won't show me one.

Where did I say I would "show you a supernatural stick?"

I said I would consider the request if it was objective, and I will if it sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure what a "supernatural stick" is even.

At least you are heading in the right direction with it though.   If I come across a "supernatural stick", I'll make sure to let you know so you can consider it.

Please define the supernatural. 
At the moment it seems to me like it is the excuse to why you don't have evidence, and that's all.

[Gwaithmir]

@ T0 Th3 M4X :

Which tells me that you don't actually have any legitimate evidence for the existence of God and you're just messing with us. I'm not wasting my time with you. Case closed.