The "Prophet Jesus": An Epic Failure?

[DeistPaladin]

I have an open question for Ex-Muslims, Muslims and religious scholars. I want to know if I have anything wrong here.

As I understand it from the Koran, Jesus was a "great prophet" and he never said he was the "Son of God". Apparently, early Christians got that idea later on. The prophet Jesus preached a strictly monotheistic message.

If that's true, it means the Christian church that eventually formed in Jesus' wake got things horribly wrong. Not only did they believe that God had a son but that it was necessary to pray to Jesus as an intercessor with the divine, a belief wholly blasphemous and idolatrous to both Jews and Muslims alike. Short of the early Christians becoming Satan worshipers, I can't imagine a more catastrophic outcome for any prophet.

Wouldn't that mean Jesus was an epic failure as a prophet?

Let's review again. Jesus preaches a purely monotheistic message. Centuries later, his followers are worshiping him as God incarnate. One can imagine Allah scolding Jesus for his failure, "You! had! ONE! JOB!"

So what was so great about the "prophet Jesus" if he failed as a prophet that badly?

[The Valkyrie]

But Profit Jesus ™ has been an unmitigated success.

[WinterHold]

But humans were never meant to believe in God and his messengeres all of them, some believe some don't; and God already stated this explicitly in the Quran:

Sura 11, The Quran:
Sahih International
https://quran.com/11/118-123?translations=20

(118) And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.

(119) Except whom your Lord has given mercy, and for that He created them. But the word of your Lord is to be fulfilled that, "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and men all together."

So Jesus was a mere reminder; a mercy from God to people so they might believe and save their souls from the hell that is coming after death. He didn't lose a thing; but those who went against him lost his teachings and what he preached.

[The Grand Nudger]

We were never meant to believe in god, but we're going to burn for not believing in god?

...and that's what makes jesus being such a fuckup okay......?

[WinterHold]

We were never meant to believe in god, but we're going to burn for not believing in god?

...and that's what makes jesus being such a fuckup okay......?

You have a personal choice.
It is not ruled by the constraints of your brain, body, sun, moon, life, death; though.
It is ruled by the constraints God putted.

An atheist believes that their will is free; but it is actually governed by the constraints of this life.
A Muslim believes that their will is free; but it is actually governed by a maker who made the constraints of this life.

[Belacqua]

Apparently, early Christians got that idea later on. 

How much later is later? Of course there's debate about when exactly the gospels were written, and Paul's letters, but it's not much later. 

John's gospel calls Jesus the logos, which has a long philosophical pedigree as something either an emanation from the One or the One viewed in a particular way. It's not a son like a human son, but analogously expressed.

The prophet Jesus preached a strictly monotheistic message. 

I know the trinity doesn't look monotheistic to outsiders, but the absolute simplicity of God is basic theology to both Christians and Muslims. Christians would disagree that they teach anything other than strict monotheism. 

Human limitations cause us to see parts or aspects.

necessary to pray to Jesus as an intercessor with the divine

Again, Jesus being divine means that he's not an intercessor. 



Catholics see saints, from Mary on down, as possible intercessors. Jesus isn't one of those.

[The Grand Nudger]

Guess that's just another thing that "Paul" got wrong, then, huh Bel?

[Abaddon_ire]

Again, Jesus being divine means that he's not an intercessor. 

Catholics see saints, from Mary on down, as possible intercessors. Jesus isn't one of those.

And that is an abject lie. Why must you lie?

I was raised Catholic. I know you are lying.

Wanna know where that lie originates? From the evangelicals. So that must be where you garnered that little untruth.

So why would you promulgate an evangelical lie? Because you are one of them. Or Baptist. Or any of the prod denominations. Whatever. It simply is not true.

Disagree? Not my problem because I believe in none of that nonsense. You would have to take that up with the Vatican.

But at least we have narrowed down the denomination you subscribe to just a little. The number of denominations that put out that baloney is rather small.

[Belacqua]

Again, Jesus being divine means that he's not an intercessor. 

Catholics see saints, from Mary on down, as possible intercessors. Jesus isn't one of those.

And that is an abject lie. Why must you lie?

I was raised Catholic. I know you are lying.

Wanna know where that lie originates? From the evangelicals. So that must be where you garnered that little untruth.

So why would you promulgate an evangelical lie? Because you are one of them. Or Baptist. Or any of the prod denominations. Whatever. It simply is not true.

Disagree? Not my problem because I believe in none of that nonsense. You would have to take that up with the Vatican.

But at least we have narrowed down the denomination you subscribe to just a little. The number of denominations that put out that baloney is rather small.

If I'm wrong I'll be happy to hear you explain why.

[The Grand Nudger]

Someone could quote magic book calling jesus an intercessor or simply explain to you that this is the function of jesus in their catholic faith or show you that in the actual study of people and their gods this is what he character of the type that christ presents is called...

...but, none of that is going to mean much to you, huh?