Anyone else ready for our first gay president?

[Cepheus Ace]

he is gay.... why is this of any relevance to anything?

Relevance is subjective.

Besides, it'd be historic, as Obama as the "first black president" was.

Obama being the first black president.. its historic, its inspiring for blacks... but its also irrelevant as well because in politics all that matters is policy.

let me remind you while in office he:
1. operated a torture facility in Cuba
2. drone strikes under him killed 80% civilians in the middle east
3. expanded us offensive military interventions from 2 to 7 countries that didn't attack the US
4. he was given a list of who to put in his cabinet by citibank
5. none of the people who caused the 2008 financial crisis were prosecuted or went to prison and the banks are even bigger than before
6. Tim Geithner who Obama appointed to the Treasury said on record their goal was to  help the banks
7. He passed the ACA which is Romney care and what the GOP tried to push as an alternative to single payer before G.W Bush won the presidency (leaving 30 million uninsured and millions more under-insured)
8. he didn't end the war on drugs which was put in place by Nixon to target minorities and political opponents

and I can easily add more to this list, so compared to what he did how is him being the first black president in any way remotely significant?

and here's something extra
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/ma...et-it.html

[Silver]

let me remind you while in office he:
1. operated a torture facility in Cuba
2. drone strikes under him killed 80% civilians in the middle east
3. expanded us offensive military interventions from 2 to 7 countries that didn't attack the US
4. he was given a list of who to put in his cabinet by citibank
5. none of the people who caused the 2008 financial crisis were prosecuted or went to prison and the banks are even bigger than before
6. Tim Geithner who Obama appointed to the Treasury said on record their goal was to  help the banks
7. He passed the ACA which is Romney care and what the GOP tried to push as an alternative to single payer before G.W Bush won the presidency (leaving 30 million uninsured and millions more under-insured)
8. he didn't end the war on drugs which was put in place by Nixon to target minorities and political opponents

Oh, my, a man after my own heart.

[Pat Mustard]

Not really...  This obsession with who people like to sleep with has been so overdone, all I can do is roll my eyes when people continue to focus on some meaningless drivel.  When it comes to a President, I'm more interested in his/her policy positions than I am anything else.

Let me guess, the policy of stoning gays is a favourite, fundy.

[outtathereligioncloset]

He's purdy.

[Amarok]

Not really...  This obsession with who people like to sleep with has been so overdone

Yeah only you fundies would stop obsessing over it . that would be great .

, all I can do is roll my eyes when people continue to focus on some meaningless drivel. 

Yeah you fundies freaking out about the "gay agenda " and how oppressed you are is pretty cringy 

When it comes to a President, I'm more interested in his/her policy positions than I am anything else.

As long as those policies are oppress LGBT people and take away female autonomy i'm sure your really into those policies like a good theocrat

[Guard of Guardians]

I don't know anyone who is fine with what Trump did and is alleged to have done.  But when your choices are between an immoral man who wants to do good for the country and avoid the legal murder of children vs. an immoral woman who wants or whose party wants to do harm to the country and make it legal kill children post-birth.  It's pretty easy hold the nose and vote yes for Trump.  And as far as I remember, Clinton was in trouble for lying about something while under oath, not because he had sex in the oval office.

So it's okay to lock children in cages, so long as a live human woman doesn't make the healthcare choice to abort her fetus?  Nice to see you don't give a FUCK about women or children, just fetuses much like the rest of you fake fucks.

Donald Trump wants to do good for the country?  Don't make me fucking laugh.  He cares about one thing: Himself.  He's not going to help people get healthcare.  He's only going to help himself.  But all you give a fuck about is controlling women.

Um, yeah, if my choice was locking a child in a cage for a limited period of time versus murdering and even more vulnerable and defenseless child...yeah.  Obviously, a cage would be the least bad choice, and making that choice would be a mark of moral maturity with regard to decision-making.  I care about women and children, but no one is talking about killing women.  97% to 98% of those women are in the position of having a child in the first place due to their own choices.  They don't have to keep the child.  They simply have to allow it to live and avoid murdering it, which I don't think should be a hard choice.

I have no intention of making you laugh.  It seems to me that if he cared about himself as much as you say, he'd never put himself in the position to take the level of abuse he sustains on a daily basis, though I admit, I could be wrong.  I have a hard time seeing how he's actually helping himself a great deal, but I'll leave that as an open question.  It's possible that he'll be help in some way by what he's doing, but it's a harsh path to follow for a bit of self-help.

[Silver]

Or the proper moral decision could be to simply not lock the child away?

The problem with many people is that they think there are only two options to any situation.

[Guard of Guardians]

..an immoral man who wants to do good for the country

Per definition, those two things exclude each other.

immoral woman who wants .... to do harm to the country and make it legal kill children post-birth.

Evidence please

No, they are not mutually exclusive.  A person can behave in an immoral fashion and still behave in a moral fashion at other times.  Every person on this planet does that every single day.  We've all done wrong things at one point or another, and we've all done good things at one point or another.  They do not exclude one another.

You can look up Hillary Clinton's positions yourself.  And you can see some of the legislation that members of her party in New York & Virginia have put in place to make abortion up to the moment of birth and even immediately after birth...legal.  That's all publicly available information, and I believe YouTube videos of some of those discussions are available.

[Silver]

A ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF EVERY INTERVIEW WITH PETE BUTTIGIEG

“Despite lacking traditional qualifications for the presidency and declining, so far, to detail a distinctive policy agenda, Mr. Buttigieg has risen to the middle of the Democratic field in polling numbers and fund-raising.” – The New York Times

- - -
Is it true that you speak Norwegian?
Ja, I am evasive in seven different languages.

How do you plan to tackle income inequality?
If I may, I’d like to speak to that very specific issue with a few glittering generalities.

Go on.
Freedom. Democracy. Bridges.

Care to elaborate?
Optimism. Honesty. A child’s lemonade stand.

You have my vote.
I know. If this piece were any fluffier, it’d have a thread count.

Here’s a question I would totally ask Elizabeth Warren: Phish or Radiohead?
Phish covering Radiohead’s “Tweezer – Reprise,” with a surprise cameo by Dave Matthews.

All right, no more softballs…
Uh-oh, my seat’s heating up! Reminds me of Afghanistan. Did I mention I served in Afghanistan?

Several times, hero. What did you learn from your time in the Navy Reserve?
The Middle East… (steeples hands) is complicated.

Wow. That’s the kind of profound insight you only get from fighting on the frontlines.
Here’s a Polaroid of me in the desert, holding a gun.

You just… carry these around?
You can keep that. I’ve got tons more because I served my country for so long.

How do you feel about the use of American force abroad?
It’s like Graham Greene said: “Innocence is like a dumb leper that has lost his bell, wandering the world, meaning no harm.”

(Nods slowly)
I wrote my thesis on Greene at Oxford, where I was a Rhodes scholar — but oh, I don’t like to talk about that. Here’s a hard copy of my thesis. You can keep that; I’ve got tons more.

Is it possible that you’re too smart to be President?
At my core, I’m still just a simple corn-fed farm-boy who went to prep school and Harvard and used to dress up as a politician for Halloween.

That’s not a red flag at all! May I introduce you to my mother?
Sure, I’ll bring over some cornbread that spells out TEAM PETE.

Speaking of teams, with which wing of the Democratic party do you identify?
I am as progressive or moderate or mischievous as you want me to be. Every voter can literally redesign Pete Buttigieg.

Are you a socialist or a capitalist?
I’m a renaissance man.

Is the mayor of a town of 100,000 people qualified to run a country of 327 million?
I guess you haven’t seen this sweet pic of me rolling up my sleeves.

Why you? Why now?
Both of my dogs are rescues.

How do you respond to people who say that you’re just another empty suit, or an Ivy League business guy’s CV that was brought to life when it was struck by lightning?
The American people are sick and tired of politicians answering questions with answers. That’s why I always respond with a hobby, a quirk, or a song.

A song?
(Suddenly seated at piano) Don’t mind if I do. (plays Spoon’s “The Way We Get By”) That’s my stance on immigration.

You, sir, are a delight.
That’s the narrative!

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-ro...5R68hyPZG8

[Deesse23]

Per definition, those two things exclude each other.

Evidence please

No, they are not mutually exclusive.  A person can behave in an immoral fashion and still behave in a moral fashion at other times.  Every person on this planet does that every single day.  We've all done wrong things at one point or another, and we've all done good things at one point or another.  They do not exclude one another.

You can look up Hillary Clinton's positions yourself.  And you can see some of the legislation that members of her party in New York & Virginia have put in place to make abortion up to the moment of birth and even immediately after birth...legal.  That's all publicly available information, and I believe YouTube videos of some of those discussions are available.

You originally said

But when your choices are between an immoral man who wants to do good for the country and avoid the legal murder of children vs. an immoral woman

"Immoral person"does not equal "person who did something immoral". You are backpedaling. Otherwise please explain how an immoral man can "behave in a moral fashion at times".

So, no an "immoral person" wont do good for the country if its not by accident, by the very nature of his/her character, which is fundamentally different from being a person who does immoral things, which basically applies to all of us. Now, comparing Trump, an immoral, or at least amoral person through and through, with Clinton, and saying you prefer Trump says a lot more about you than about Trump or Clinton, since their characters are already well known and documented (not saying Clinton is a very pleasant one, but nowhere near the ballpark of Trump).


The truth is, you dont give a fuck about who is an immoral character or not. Trump could be a mass murderer (and he already hinted at this with his famous quote about shooting people on 5th avenue iirc). As long as he supports a position that is important to you, you will give him carte blanche. The end justifies the means, thats your position, and in the end all the immorality will be forgiven, so it really doesnt matter, does it?