[split] PSA: Hate Speech (discussion of video etc)

[pocaracas]

Which the person in the video emphatically did not agree to and, yet, got one against multiple opponents, as a "response".
An agreement of the kind you suggest presents the violence as a mutual understanding, a contract, instead of a response to the sounds.


That a violent response is to be expected, I don't doubt. Emotion runs high with such charged words.
But you then expect the violent party to be responsible for what they did... interesting.
So, if the violent one is responsible, then, when you're saying that (or agree with) the best way to avoid this violence is by not saying the charged words, you are essentially victim-blaming. Is that it?

I didn't say the violent person is responsible, I said that I had no problem with them being charged with assault.  Dunno how it is where you live, but here there's something in the law here called 'egregious provocation'.  The assaulter would need to demonstrate in court that the provocation which led to the assault was, well, egregious (to be fair, it is most often used in self defense cases, which this clearly wasn't).  Anyone who is assaulted, for any reason, should have the right to bring charges against the violent party.

I'm not sure how you make the case for victim blaming.  Could you be clearer?

Boru

If the violent person is charged with assault and proven guilty (as those would be from the video), while you're wanting the would be victim to just not say the thing that led to him being assaulted, then you are blaming the victim for the crime.
It's clear as glass.

They egregious provocation cannot be called for such cases.

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BRAVO!!!




Tell that to the guy who ends up in the hospital.

I'd never talk to that racist asshole.

Someone in society has to. And society tends to punish such violence with a far greater penalty than it does to some insult.

[Losty]

Yon is just here to accuse us of reverse racism. He will strawman and/or outright lie to “prove” his point. Just like in every other thread, his only goal is to rile people up with insults and accusations.
He doesn’t actually care what you think, he’ll continue believing whatever he wants to say you think because he’s not here for real discussion.

[pocaracas]

No.
There is no word, no group of sounds in any language that has physical violence as an acceptable response!
Never.

Charge?

My phone needs some charge.
There.
Do you feel like being violent?

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No.
There is no word, no group of sounds in any language that has physical violence as an acceptable response!
Never.

What about "Time to die, bitch!"?

All self defense experts agree that the best defense is not being there. You run, if threatened.
The existence of a threat and an aggressive intent by whoever said that makes self defense viable.
The utterance of those words without threat of violence is what I meant and you lot know it well, as it's the case being discussed in this thread.

[Losty]

I'd never talk to that racist asshole.

Someone in society has to. And society tends to punish such violence with a far greater penalty than it does to some insult.

I don’t think you’re right about that.

Let me be clear, I think violence is wrong except in self defense (which was not the case in that video).

But

I think society would likely punish the racist asshole more harshly than the violent assholes.
The racist guy could lose his job, his friends, his reputation, everything. Whereas the violent guys could get probation or a possible short stay in jail.

[pocaracas]

Someone in society has to. And society tends to punish such violence with a far greater penalty than it does to some insult.

I don’t think you’re right about that.

Let me be clear, I think violence is wrong except in self defense (which was not the case in that video).

But

I think society would likely punish the racist asshole more harshly than the violent assholes.
The racist guy could lose his job, his friends, his reputation, everything. Whereas the violent guys could get probation or a possible short stay in jail.

Unlikely as typically racists are friends with racists, work with racists and no reputation would be on the line.
Also, jail is considered worse than freedom, I think...

[The Grand Nudger]

You're overestimating the punishment society doles out for racism Losty, because you personally detest it and imagine that so many others do as well.  In reality, racists are installed in positions of authority and power for life because..not in spite of, their racism. They are held in high esteem because, not in spite of, their racism.

It sucks to be a poor racist....but that probably has more to do with being poor, and only when moving outside of their own circles, which are vast. How the relationship between society, racism, and violence plays out, is that violence is so negatively valued that violence engaged in specifically to stem some racist x is treated more harshly than the racism which compelled the response. It panics people....god forbid they fight back, do something. I mean sure, the other guy is a hood wearing klansman, but we've got rabid minorities to deal with! Lord only knows who they're gonna bite next.

[Losty]

You're overestimating the punishment society doles out for racism Losty, because you personally detest it and imagine that so many others do as well.  In reality, racists are installed in positions of authority and power for life because..not in spite of, their racism.  They are held in high esteem because, not in spite of, their racism.

It sucks to be a poor racist....but that probably has more to do with being poor, and only when moving outside of their own circles, which are vast.  How the relationship between society, racism, and violence plays out, is that violence is so negatively valued that violence engaged in specifically to stem some racist x is treated more harshly than the racism which compelled the response.

It seems to me like middle class racists are most likely to suffer.
Like if you own a small business and your racism is displayed on Twitter, the next day your business hasn’t enough costumers to stay afloat.
But I probably am over estimating it. For every person on the news whose life is ruined, there are probably tons more who suffer no consequences.

This whole back and forth between poca/yon is so weird to me. Not Yon so much because I know he’s a faker.
But...this seems obvious to me
It’s unacceptable to beat someone up for being a racist cunt. People who do that should deal with the legal consequences. I think everyone agrees with that much. It’s just...we don’t feel bad for the racist cunt. A more extreme example would be if someone murders a guy who raped their child. They shouldn’t have done it and they deserve to go to jail for doing it. But no one feels bad for the rapist that he got murdered. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[The Grand Nudger]

Na, the middle class is fucking -choked- with racist dirtbags.  They're just genteel about it. The "crime", in that sense, isn't being racist, it's exposing that racism.

Try it sometime, go to your nearest gated communities wine tasting - test the waters with a white victimization narrative, and when that sticks the landing, drop n bombs to the sound of uproarious applause. I know, I know, slimy, right? You could always summon the crickets with a deadpan "so, just how racist are you guys, anyway" at the end.

[Yonadav]

Na, the middle class is fucking -chocked- with racist dirtbags.  They're just genteel about it.  The "crime", in that sense, isn't being racist, it's exposing that racism.

Try it sometime, go to your nearest gated communities wine tasting - test the waters with a white victimization narrative, and when that sticks the landing, drop n bombs to the sound of uproarious applause.

This is one of your more hilarious fantasies.

[The Grand Nudger]

I know right?  When is casual racism -not- funny. Hi Five!