The code that is DNA

[The Architect Of Fate]

That is rich, let the record show that Sungula accused Tour of a straw man and most likely didn’t even hear what Tour had to say.

No let the record (if we keep records ) that i stated the fact that Tour has straw manned and i stand by that statement ,And yes i have heard all of Tours lies i need to. So that's that and what's  rich you think you have scored some kind of victory here .

You folks hold Sungula in good regard?

Well with one exception i have yet to see much negative regard  .I would imagine i'm held in higher regard then you .

[no one]

Set the bar higher for yourself sun, I hold higher regard for the first deuce I dropped then Mr. Potato Head.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Set the bar higher for yourself sun, I hold higher regard for the first deuce I dropped then Mr. Potato Head.

I suppose your right

[The Grand Nudger]

In the absence of known ancestry, relatedness is always an assumption. Homoplasy (such as convergence or reversals) often breaks with this assumption because trait or genetic similarity is not a true indicator of relatedness. (Wake, et al., 2011). Phylogenies are indeed hypotheses (though I disagree they're testable); they attempt to predict various ways in which the relatedness assumption could have played out.

Reference: Wake, D. B., M. H. Wake, and C. D. Specht. 2011. Homoplasy: From detecting pattern to determining process and mechanism of evolution. Science 331: 1032–1035.

Again I'll ask, "Do you know where babies come from ?"

It really is that simple.  You have to wonder about the religion a person is saddling themselves with when they need to find ways to reject heredity on principle, in order to maintain their faith.

[Pat Mustard]

The wizardry of fantasy is significantly more authentic and compelling than any advanced scientific capacity.

Now I’m picturing god dancing around with a magic wand creating the world while singing “bibbity bobbity boo.”

No I'm still picturing a god with obsessions for beetles and wheels and a realisation that the cockroach is the highest form of life.

[Silver]

Set the bar high on your ability to discern fantasy from fiction, not on your ability to be gullible.

[The Grand Nudger]

Heres another q for our creationists. What value does creationism have for christianity, as you see it? Does it actually matter whether genesis got it right or wrong?

If, for example, genesis got it wrong..and genetics got it right.......would that then mean christ didn't die on the cross for your sins?

Is a bumbling and inept tinkergod central to christianity, or is christ? Is it possible that the religion of the bumbling and inept tinkergod is harming the religion of christ? If so, what process or justification or belief leads a person to maintaining the former at the expense of the latter while referring to themselves..at least nominally, as "christian"?

[Mister Agenda]

Are we confusing 'assumptions' and 'testable hypotheses' again? Like we can't compare organisms that we KNOW are related because we bred them to learn how to use genomes to measure relatedness? I think a confirmed hypothesis is way more reliable than an assumption.

In the absence of known ancestry, relatedness is always an assumption. Homoplasy (such as convergence or reversals) often breaks with this assumption because trait or genetic similarity is not a true indicator of relatedness. (Wake, et al., 2011). Phylogenies are indeed hypotheses (though I disagree they're testable); they attempt to predict various ways in which the relatedness assumption could have played out.

Reference: Wake, D. B., M. H. Wake, and C. D. Specht. 2011. Homoplasy: From detecting pattern to determining process and mechanism of evolution. Science 331: 1032–1035.

Are you familiar with endogenous retroviruses? And the difference between assumption and inference?

Assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

Inference: a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.

Homoplasy, in biology and phylogenetics, is when a trait has been gained or lost independently in separate lineages over the course of evolution. This is different from homology, which is the similarity of traits can be parsimoniously explained by common ancestry.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Are you familiar with endogenous retroviruses? And the difference between assumption and inference?

Homoplasy, in biology and phylogenetics, is when a trait has been gained or lost independently in separate lineages over the course of evolution. This is different from homology, which is the similarity of traits can be parsimoniously explained by common ancestry.

I'm lightly familiar with retroviruses; what about them should I take into consideration?

Yes, homology is the general assumption made when two organism share similar traits or genotypes. Only once that assumption leads you up a garden path, and oddities and inconsistencies begin to emerge, can homoplasy be identified. That's the only reason why homplasy is "challenging" to phylogeny, because they remind you that you are chasing an assumption not an inference.

Even parsimony, which you yourself mentioned in your description, is full of assumptions that are not always met (see Felsenstein, 1983).

Reference: Felsenstein, J. 1983. Parsimony in systematics: Biological and statistical issues. Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics 14: 313–333.

[Mister Agenda]

There is no scientific explanation for different species having the same endogenous retroviruses other than common descent.

Are you incapable of using the word 'assumption' correctly?