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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 13, 2021 at 2:24 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2021 at 2:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Pretty hard to reoffend in a prison. Even so, when people get out they can reoffend - but unless we're talking about killing and or imprisoning a thief for life....there's really no stopping that.
I'm gonna hit the pause button here. Are you searching for ways to salvage your objections to the reality of prisons, or your arguments about prisons unreality by their lack of utility or effectiveness?
Bad prisons that aren't effective or don't work are still prisons that exist. You understand that, right? You can't cogently object to prisons by what effect (or effectiveness) prisons have so long as you maintain that there aren't any prisons to refer to.........
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 14, 2021 at 1:17 pm
(February 13, 2021 at 2:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Pretty hard to reoffend in a prison. Even so, when people get out they can reoffend - but unless we're talking about killing and or imprisoning a thief for life....there's really no stopping that.
I'm gonna hit the pause button here. Are you searching for ways to salvage your objections to the reality of prisons, or your arguments about prisons unreality by their lack of utility or effectiveness?
Bad prisons that aren't effective or don't work are still prisons that exist. You understand that, right? You can't cogently object to prisons by what effect (or effectiveness) prisons have so long as you maintain that there aren't any prisons to refer to......... And hell not being justice is also not a valid argument against the existence of hell?
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 14, 2021 at 1:58 pm
This is one of the most stupid threads on this forum.
Prisons exist - full stop. Their effectiveness in controlling/preventing crime is debatable.
Has anyone seen the Biblical hell? No. Therefore there is no proof hell exists. There are only threats by the faithful.
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 14, 2021 at 2:06 pm
(February 14, 2021 at 1:58 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Has anyone seen the Biblical hell? No. Therefore there is no proof hell exists.
Has anyone seen the inside of your skull? No. Therefore there is no proof your brain exists.
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 14, 2021 at 2:09 pm
(February 14, 2021 at 2:06 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (February 14, 2021 at 1:58 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Has anyone seen the Biblical hell? No. Therefore there is no proof hell exists.
Has anyone seen the inside of your skull? No. Therefore there is no proof your brain exists.
Kloroform - prove hell. Scientific proof. Not your magical mumbo jumbo or "my book says".
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 14, 2021 at 4:18 pm
Klorophyll, why would I want to worship a god so evil that it would torture people after they die?
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 14, 2021 at 6:24 pm
(This post was last modified: February 14, 2021 at 6:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 14, 2021 at 1:17 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: (February 13, 2021 at 2:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Pretty hard to reoffend in a prison. Even so, when people get out they can reoffend - but unless we're talking about killing and or imprisoning a thief for life....there's really no stopping that.
I'm gonna hit the pause button here. Are you searching for ways to salvage your objections to the reality of prisons, or your arguments about prisons unreality by their lack of utility or effectiveness?
Bad prisons that aren't effective or don't work are still prisons that exist. You understand that, right? You can't cogently object to prisons by what effect (or effectiveness) prisons have so long as you maintain that there aren't any prisons to refer to......... And hell not being justice is also not a valid argument against the existence of hell? Correct. The injustice of hell as a concept or a real place says nothing about it's existence.
Do you understand?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 15, 2021 at 6:25 am
(This post was last modified: February 15, 2021 at 6:27 am by FlatAssembler.)
(February 14, 2021 at 2:06 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (February 14, 2021 at 1:58 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Has anyone seen the Biblical hell? No. Therefore there is no proof hell exists.
Has anyone seen the inside of your skull? No. Therefore there is no proof your brain exists. But people have seen other brains. And it is a scientifically accepted fact that any living person has at least a part of a brain in his skull, because a human being cannot (unlike insects) live without a brain (one cannot breathe without a brain, for example). Seriously claiming a living human being has no brain is a very extraordinary claim, because it requires much of what we know about biology to be false.
(February 14, 2021 at 6:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (February 14, 2021 at 1:17 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: And hell not being justice is also not a valid argument against the existence of hell? Correct. The injustice of hell as a concept or a real place says nothing about it's existence.
Do you understand?
Well, maybe. Still, many atheists use the argument that hell would not be justice as an argument against its existence, and I think it is a relatively convincing argument. I used it in my latest YouTube video about atheism.
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 15, 2021 at 6:28 am
(February 14, 2021 at 2:06 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (February 14, 2021 at 1:58 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Has anyone seen the Biblical hell? No. Therefore there is no proof hell exists.
Has anyone seen the inside of your skull? No. Therefore there is no proof your brain exists.
People have seen the inside of my skull. Of course, there's always the possibility that the pictures of my aneurysm surgery were photoshopped, I suppose.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
February 15, 2021 at 4:14 pm
(This post was last modified: February 15, 2021 at 4:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 15, 2021 at 6:25 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:
(February 14, 2021 at 6:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Correct. The injustice of hell as a concept or a real place says nothing about it's existence.
Do you understand?
Well, maybe. Still, many atheists use the argument that hell would not be justice as an argument against its existence, and I think it is a relatively convincing argument.
Allow me to suggest that you've misunderstood the objection in addition to misunderstanding valid inference. Whether we sub in hell or prison, the argument is invalid for precisely the same reason. They're both non sequiturs.
The injustice of hell is a comment on the moral status of a competent god, not the existence of hell. Just as the injustice of a prison is a comment on the moral status of a competent system, not the existence of prisons.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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