[split] Ethics - parental responsibility re: children

[Ahriman]

It's really not ethical to have children.......

[The Grand Nudger]

State your axioms, define your variables, and show your proof.

[Ahriman]

State your axioms, define your variables, and show your proof.

All people brought into this world will suffer in some way/shape/form, and the "good" does not outweigh the "bad", really not even close. Is that not proof enough?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

State your axioms, define your variables, and show your proof.

All people brought into this world will suffer in some way/shape/form, and the "good" does not outweigh the "bad", really not even close. Is that not proof enough?

That’s not proof, that’s simply an assertion. You make the unjustified assumption that the festering fucktangle [nod to awty] that is your life applies to everyone’s life.

Boru

[Ahriman]

All people brought into this world will suffer in some way/shape/form, and the "good" does not outweigh the "bad", really not even close. Is that not proof enough?

That’s not proof, that’s simply an assertion. You make the unjustified assumption that the festering fucktangle [nod to awty] that is your life applies to everyone’s life.

Boru

You really think it's just me? You don't think all people suffer? Because they do. Everyone suffers. And technically speaking, any amount or level of suffering is unacceptable, because it doesn't need to happen in the first place, because no one needs to have children. It's a completely unnecessary and unethical thing to do, and only a bad person would defend this action.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, it's just you. Some of us enjoy our lives and have a generally decent time - especially kids..who are super duper good at finding the fun and memory holing any suffering. Further, a great many parents would, if they could, prevent all suffering. Just not in our power - and thus, not our responsibility.

Agency, moral or otherwise, is about the levers you can pull, not the levers you can't. Not having children won't prevent suffering - but it will, in point of fact, add to suffering - and not just to people who want kids, but even to people who don't. How is society supposed to support someone like you without a bunch of my children accounting for your every need and whim as a free rider?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

That’s not proof, that’s simply an assertion. You make the unjustified assumption that the festering fucktangle [nod to awty] that is your life applies to everyone’s life.

Boru

You really think it's just me? You don't think all people suffer? Because they do. Everyone suffers. And technically speaking, any amount or level of suffering is unacceptable, because it doesn't need to happen in the first place, because no one needs to have children. It's a completely unnecessary and unethical thing to do, and only a bad person would defend this action.

Of course everyone suffers. I was objecting to your claim that suffering always outweighs non-suffering, and that consequently, life is more bad than good. That’s an empirical claim and as such needs to be supported by evidence. You have none.

You simply have no way to measure the amount of suffering vs not-suffering in the lives of people you’ve never met and will never meet. Without going into details, I’ve experienced levels of suffering that would make you gasp with disbelief, but there’s no question in my mind that my life has been more good than bad.

Furthermore, the ‘goodness’ of life is better thought of as exponential rather than linear.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

That’s not proof, that’s simply an assertion. You make the unjustified assumption that the festering fucktangle [nod to awty] that is your life applies to everyone’s life.

Boru

You really think it's just me? You don't think all people suffer? Because they do. Everyone suffers. And technically speaking, any amount or level of suffering is unacceptable, because it doesn't need to happen in the first place, because no one needs to have children. It's a completely unnecessary and unethical thing to do, and only a bad person would defend this action.

Should I apologize to my kids for bringing them into this world because you said so?

[Ahriman]

You really think it's just me? You don't think all people suffer? Because they do. Everyone suffers. And technically speaking, any amount or level of suffering is unacceptable, because it doesn't need to happen in the first place, because no one needs to have children. It's a completely unnecessary and unethical thing to do, and only a bad person would defend this action.

Should I apologize to my kids for bringing them into this world because you said so?

An apology wouldn't do any good, obviously. But you do owe them anything they want for the rest of their lives.

[arewethereyet]

Should I apologize to my kids for bringing them into this world because you said so?

An apology wouldn't do any good, obviously. But you do owe them anything they want for the rest of their lives.

Really?  

Seriously, you need to have your meds adjusted.  You are delusional.