Religion and European constitutions

[Interaktive]

I want developed science. And you? I think, that constitution law of Germany, France and Poland bad, because, say about god. Europe constitutions must be without god.

Christ, Krishna, Allah must be, like deism, because it is mental health. In this god belief 55%
I don't read bible, Koran, bahavat gita, because I don't know what is better

[Deesse23]

The german constitution does not mean what you think it means.

[Interaktive]

The german constitution does not mean what you think it means.

Word -god- must not be in constitution in 21 century

[Deesse23]

The german constitution does not mean what you think it means.

Word -god- must not be in constitution in 21 century

What do you think it means in the context of the german constitution?

[Interaktive]

Word -god- must not be in constitution in 21 century

What do you think it means in the context of the german constitution?

What about France constitution?

[Rev. Rye]

Looking up the three constitutions you mentioned:

Germany: mentions it in the preamble in the phrase "Conscious of their responsibility before God and man," which can be interpreted several ways, for instance, as two separate sources of obligation. Perhaps it's more rhetorical than anything else. Also in the context of "So Help me God" in the oath of office. Not ideal that it's treated as an integral part of the oath of office, but that's about it.

France: mentioned only in the preamble of the Declaration of Human and Civic Rights, which is mentioned as being repealed, and is, in any case, from the French Revolution, which has tended towards deism, and would end up creating a deistic Cult of Reason a few years later.

Poland: The most substantial mention of God: "We, the Polish Nation - all citizens of the Republic, Both those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty, As well as those not sharing such faith but respecting those universal values as arising from other sources," which is explicitly inclusive of those who do and don't believe. Their phrasing of "Recognizing our responsibility before God or our own consciences," makes the spirit of a similar phrase in the German constitution more explicit. Also a total of THREE different sections related to the oath of office, each with a mention of an optional "So help me God" at the end.

A better example to complain about comes from the Constitution of Ireland's preamble:

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

Very explicitly Christian, and mentioning obligations to God but not their fellow man. Now here we have something to pick apart. Then again, this is the notoriously priest-ridden Irish we're talking about. Though given how Ireland seems to be coming to terms with how the RCC has been taking advantage of them for centuries, things may end up changing.

And if you want to make an argument Joschka Fisher makes a very important point to always keep in mind, one he believes in so fervently that he actually switched to English for the cheap seats, something that never really happens in International Diplomacy:



You have to Make the Case. You cannot just make these bare assertions that might be controversial without supporting them. You have to make the case. And if you can't support them, we're not convinced.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I want developed science. And you? I think, that constitution law of Germany, France and Poland bad, because, say about god. Europe constitutions must be without god.

Christ, Krishna, Allah must be, like deism, because it is mental health. In this god belief 55%
I don't read bible, Koran, bahavat gita, because I don't know what is better

How much does the mention of God in a constitution affect your daily life? I'm about as non-theistic as it gets, but this strikes me as a non-issue. France, for example, is one of the most secular of Western nations, while the US, whose constitution makes no mention of God whatsoever, has a major political party embarking on a sweeping programme to subvert democracy, deny science, and curtail basic human rights.

Boru

[Interaktive]

Looking up the three constitutions you mentioned:

Germany: mentions it in the preamble in the phrase "Conscious of their responsibility before God and man," which can be interpreted several ways, for instance, as two separate sources of obligation. Perhaps it's more rhetorical than anything else. Also in the context of "So Help me God" in the oath of office. Not ideal that it's treated as an integral part of the oath of office, but that's about it.

France: mentioned only in the preamble of the Declaration of Human and Civic Rights, which is mentioned as being repealed, and is, in any case, from the French Revolution, which has tended towards deism, and would end up creating a deistic Cult of Reason a few years later.

Poland: The most substantial mention of God: "We, the Polish Nation - all citizens of the Republic, Both those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty, As well as those not sharing such faith but respecting those universal values as arising from other sources," which is explicitly inclusive of those who do and don't believe. Their phrasing of "Recognizing our responsibility before God or our own consciences," makes the spirit of a similar phrase in the German constitution more explicit. Also a total of THREE different sections related to the oath of office, each with a mention of an optional "So help me God" at the end.

A better example to complain about comes from the Constitution of Ireland's preamble:

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

Very explicitly Christian, and mentioning obligations to God but not their fellow man. Now here we have something to pick apart. Then again, this is the notoriously priest-ridden Irish we're talking about. Though given how Ireland seems to be coming to terms with how the RCC has been taking advantage of them for centuries, things may end up changing.

And if you want to make an argument Joschka Fisher makes a very important point to always keep in mind, one he believes in so fervently that he actually switched to English for the cheap seats, something that never really happens in International Diplomacy:



You have to Make the Case. You cannot just make these bare assertions that might be controversial without supporting them. You have to make the case. And if you can't support them, we're not convinced.

why mention God at all? you have to forget about it.

[Deesse23]

What do you think it means in the context of the german constitution?

What about France constitution?

What about answering my question?

[Interaktive]

I want developed science. And you? I think, that constitution law of Germany, France and Poland bad, because, say about god. Europe constitutions must be without god.

Christ, Krishna, Allah must be, like deism, because it is mental health. In this god belief 55%
I don't read bible, Koran, bahavat gita, because I don't know what is better

How much does the mention of God in a constitution affect your daily life? I'm about as non-theistic as it gets, but this strikes me as a non-issue. France, for example, is one of the most secular of Western nations, while the US, whose constitution makes no mention of God whatsoever, has a major political party embarking on a sweeping programme to subvert democracy, deny science, and curtail basic human rights.

Boru

Why is God in the constitution? I'm a lawyer. I am for the development of law