Russia is Europe. Kyiv and Moscow should be in the European Union

[Ranjr]

I am not interested in the opinion of the USA. Merkel and Scholz are independent. Trump proved it

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If Moscow grants independence to the eastern territories, it will join the European Union

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you have anti-German rhetoric

Good luck with the new world order.  Surely, Putin and his armies will be as good an ally to Germany as Stalin was.

[LinuxGal]

Russia is Europe. Kyiv and Moscow should be in the European Union

Look up where Vladivostok, Russia is, and see if you still stand by your claim that Russia is in Europe.

[Anomalocaris]

95% of Russia’s population is in Europe.   Russia’s cultural outlook is primarily European.    To say russia is not European country because of Vladivostok is akin to saying the US is not a western country because of Hawaii or Guam.

The reason why western and Central Europe is so inclined to exclude russia from the concept of Europe is simple, and more fundamental than the fact Russia had been great antagonist of self-styled western values during the Cold War and separated by opaque czarist autocracy before the October revolution.    The reason is Russia’s population, geographic size and position and natural resource is such that a russia fully integrated into Europe would eventually completely dominate the European Union economically, and geopolitically, and powers that currently have great economic and political weight in Europe, such a Germany and France, would be relegated to second tier status.   Countries that are already second tier, such Poland and Baltic republics, would become russia’s door mat.

imperial aggrandizement proceed on the assumption that those doing the aggrandizing will still call the shots in the post aggrandizement world.   Imperial expand loses appeal if the aggrandizer can look forward to playing second fiddle to the aggrandizee.   

so everyone in europe would rather be a bigger shot in a smaller europe than a smaller shot in a bigger europe.

if Russia is completely fragmented, and emasculated to such an extent that western country can think of Russia as the war of a colony for Europe, then you will probably be happy to absorb Russia. But then United States still wouldn’t be.

[Deesse23]

Its, of course, a modern "european" conspiracy that had made Russia utterly backwards, politically and economically......for the past 500 years.

[Anomalocaris]

get some perspective.

Russia is hardly backwards in comparison to some countries in the EU, and very advanced compared to ukraine.

doing much of the last 500 years, Russia was also not particularly backwards compared to the bulk of southern and eastern Europe

[Deesse23]

get some perspective.

Russia is hardly backwards in comparison to some countries in the EU, and very advanced compared to ukraine.

Russia is hardly backwards, economically and politically, to which countries in the EU exactly? The GDP, per capita, of Bulgaria matches the one of Russia, and Bulgaria is one of the poorest countries in the EU.
I hope as well that Ukraine never gets so politically advanced, that it starts invading neighboring countries, like.......Ukraine?

Nope, Russia politically and economically backwards, for 500 years, and its not even someone elses fault. Its hard to accept for some, i know, but its true.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

95% of Russia’s population is in Europe.   Russia’s cultural outlook is primarily European.    To say russia is not European country because of Vladivostok is akin to saying the US is not a western country because of Hawaii or Guam.

The reason why western and Central Europe is so inclined to exclude russia from the concept of Europe is simple, and more fundamental than the fact Russia had been great antagonist of self-styled western values during the Cold War and separated by opaque czarist autocracy before the October revolution.    The reason is Russia’s population, geographic size and position and natural resource is such that a russia fully integrated into Europe would eventually completely dominate the European Union economically, and geopolitically, and powers that currently have great economic and political weight in Europe, such a Germany and France, would be relegated to second tier status.   Countries that are already second tier, such Poland and Baltic republics, would become russia’s door mat.

imperial aggrandizement proceed on the assumption that those doing the aggrandizing will still call the shots in the post aggrandizement world.   Imperial expand loses appeal if the aggrandizer can look forward to playing second fiddle to the aggrandizee.   

so everyone in europe would rather be a bigger shot in a smaller europe than a smaller shot in a bigger europe.

if Russia is completely fragmented, and emasculated to such an extent that western country can think of Russia as the war of a colony for Europe, then you will probably be happy to absorb Russia. But then United States still wouldn’t be.

(Bold mine)

This has never been the case politically, economically, or population-wise. Politically for the reasons you mentioned above. Economically? Nah. The EU could spend Russia into the dust. Population-wise? The EU has three-quarters of a billion people. Russia has about a fifth of that.

Sure, Russia is bigger geographically. But, you know, pfft.

Boru

[Anomalocaris]

EU population is not three quarter billion but significantly less than half a billion.   it wouldn’t get anywhere close to three quarter billion even with russia includes.   Russia’s population would be one quarter of the notional combined EU Russia entity.   But Russian population world be at twice as large as that of any other EU constituent state.   So Russia inside EU would likely often represent the most powerful and cohesive block in the EU

the concept of integration presumably is for the long run.  so the fact the EU at the moment can spend russian into oblivion is far from the critical calculus for current EU constituents.   the calculus is while integration with EU will benefit both sides, who will benefit more in the long run.  The answer is without any doubt, and by a large margin, Russia stands to benefit more from integration and improve her economic position relative to the rest of the EU.    what would the end state be like?   if russia  had nothing else other than just a well educated workforce, which she already has, she would eventually gain economic clout in the EU commensurate with the fact that popukation she is twice as large as the next largest EU State.   but russia has far more than well educated work force.   this brings us to geography.

What overwhelming advantage does geography bring to russia?   size itself is not it.   natural resources, sure , that is already an overwhelming benefit by itself.   but there is something worth more than her natural resource and an outgrowth of her size is russia is the central hub of Eurasia and enjoy interior lines or communication with every economic region on euroasia continent.    Through Russia the EU can directly threaten or pressure almost anyone on euroasia without taking any over steps.   through russia EU can trade with almost anyone on euroasia and ignore any pressure from any maritime threats,   interior lines of trading opens up huge growth inland potential in all of euroasia, and the EU stands to be the main gainer.  and that is not possible without Russia.

EU with russia will easily displace the US as the global hegemon.   But a globally hegemonic EU will see the influence of all its current meme bets eclipsed by Russia.

[Interaktive]

Germans and Americans must unite against the Chinese and Russians

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Germans and Americans must unite against the Chinese and Russians

Why?

What about the French? The Japanese? The Indians? Why are you excluding so many countries?

What, specifically, do you mean by ‘unite against’?

What do you think will happen if this unity doesn't take place?

Should the Belgians and the Latvians unite against the Italians and the Swiss?

Boru