So you believe in evolution..

[power]

I should give up people.. This is a bit like arguing with a stubborn child about the existence of Santa

You never even began. You brought up two unconvincing cases of vestigial organs..you could try engaging the original post. Not one person has constructed a valid argument supporting macro evolution

We have constructed many valid points but you are too deluded and stubbornly sticking to your primitive ideology to see them.

The problem here is that you are a deluded, close minded theist who thinks he has got one over on us atheists whereas we are open minded, knowledgeable atheists who know we have got several over on you.

Or, There's none so blind as those who will not see.

Darwinian, you and I agree on your final point, but using ad homs are what point to ignorance. I've debated this in depth with atheists who actually understand the subject, so I can tell when someone doesn't have much knowledge about it. Sadly, many atheists I meet don't even know what micro and macro evolution is, or think creationists made it up. Everything posted until now fails to even address my main points..I started to discuss this a bit with leo-rcc and talk about mechanisms but that is as far as it went..so claiming you have some intellectual advantage over me is kind of laughable at this point. I'm still waiting for an actual opponent to debate me instead of just appealing to other sources and using ad homs.

[KichigaiNeko]

Oh dear...here we go AGAIN!!!

How many times is it this month??

@ power...do you actually READ? I think it was Darwining, gave you a terrific link explaining Micro and Macro evolution.

[Rusko]

Hello power.
I have a recommendation for you.
Watch this show, it is really great and it will answer many of your questions.
It had a huge impact on me when I started to question myself about the existance of god and it made me realize that just because there is no good answer for how the universe was made (not yet) doesn't make a suernatural all-powerful being explanation more plausible or true as you are trying to prove us here, and failed.
You should NEVER belive in ANYTHING without any kind of proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The show is called "The Atheist Experience" , watch a few episodes, think about it and you can even call them if you want to debate with them or ask them a question.

Link:
The Atheist Experience

Also if you are going to claim that the universe is the extraordinary evidence watch this video:
Universe from Nothing

[LastPoet]

He doesn't want to know, he already knows the answer and it is god. And because we don't agree with him we're closeminded.... Yeah.

[Ace Otana]

It's his way or we are all closed minded. Can't reason with a mind like that.

[power]

because nearly half of biologists believe in a personal God who answers prayers.

[citation needed]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/nation...nted=print

oh, and to your earlier link, here is a counter link

http://www.trueorigin.org/theobald1a.asp

[KichigaiNeko]

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

There ya go...happy reading.

---

A survey of the American National Academy of Sciences showed that 7% of the members believed in god. A similar and much more recent survey of Fellows of the Royal Society, which is the British equivalent, gave a figure of 5%. I'd expect it to be lower in the UK as the UK is much less religious than the USA in any case.

And your source Dar??

[Darwinian]

because nearly half of biologists believe in a personal God who answers prayers.

[citation needed]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/nation...nted=print

oh, and to your earlier link, here is a counter link

http://www.trueorigin.org/theobald1a.asp

And I raise you..

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

[Darwinning]

Sadly, many atheists I meet don't even know what micro and macro evolution is, or think creationists made it up.

We are not those atheists. Trust us.

Everything posted until now fails to even address my main points.

Apart from the frequently linked article confusingly titled "29+ Evidences for Macroevolution - The Scientific Case for Common Descent" which states in it's introduction:

This article directly addresses the scientific evidence in favor of common descent and macroevolution. This article is specifically intended for those who are scientifically minded but, for one reason or another, have come to believe that macroevolutionary theory explains little, makes few or no testable predictions, is unfalsifiable, or has not been scientifically demonstrated.

Did you read that part?

---

because nearly half of biologists believe in a personal God who answers prayers.

[citation needed]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/nation...nted=print

So when you said "nearly half of biologists believe in a personal God who answers prayers" you were referring to the below?

(Emphasis mine.)

According to a much-discussed survey reported in the journal Nature in 1997, 40 percent of biologists, physicists and mathematicians said they believed in God - and not just a nonspecific transcendental presence but, as the survey put it, a God to whom one may pray "in expectation of receiving an answer."

The survey, by Edward J. Larson of the University of Georgia, was intended to replicate one conducted in 1914, and the results were virtually unchanged. In both cases, participants were drawn from a directory of American scientists.

Others play down those results. They note that when Dr. Larson put part of the same survey to "leading scientists" - in this case, members of the National Academy of Sciences, perhaps the nation's most eminent scientific organization - fewer than 10 percent professed belief in a personal God or human immortality.

[power]

Hello power.
I have a recommendation for you.
Watch this show, it is really great and it will answer many of your questions.
It had a huge impact on me when I started to question myself about the existance of god and it made me realize that just because there is no good answer for how the universe was made (not yet) doesn't make a suernatural all-powerful being explanation more plausible or true as you are trying to prove us here, and failed.
You should NEVER belive in ANYTHING without any kind of proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The show is called "The Atheist Experience" , watch a few episodes, think about it and you can even call them if you want to debate with them or ask them a question.

Link:
The Atheist Experience

Also if you are going to claim that the universe is the extraordinary evidence watch this video:
Universe from Nothing

Thanks for the suggestion..I have actually seen the show before. I am pretty well acquainted with the arguments because I used to believe them too. I haven't always believed in God. It's fine to question, and what I have found is that when you place your faith and trust in God, He provides the evidence. The bible says this:

Hebrews 11:6

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

You have to consider that the bible tells you how to seek God, and that if you look for Him another way, you shouldn't expect to see Him or find Him. Let me ask you this..

It comes down to Jesus Christ. The central question of Christianity is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. If He wasn't resurrected, none of it is true. If He was, everything He said is the truth. So, what evidence would you accept for the resurrection?

You are starting with the presupposition that God doesn't even exist, so you don't believe there is a God that could raise Jesus from the dead. Because of that presupposition, you require even more extraordinary evidence than would be sufficient otherwise. That is something else to consider.

I'll check out your video though..I have to get to sleep soon so I will get back to you.